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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#701

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #692
dre85 wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the first point which is definitely a blessing even if we can't see it directly. To the second point I would argue (and I unfortunately do argue) that "responsibility" can be a vague and subjective term. Like is it a hard-coded responsibility to make your bed every morning? Some would argue yes and use funny arguments like "ask anyone normal" or "all highly intelligent/successful people do it". I would s…

>I would say it's generally a waste of time unless you're bed is so off that you can't comfortably get back into it. I think the point about making the bed is that it takes all of 30 seconds and makes the entire room look significantly more orderly. One of the highest-ROI cleaning tasks, in terms of time spent vs. tidiness gained.

He said that’s one of an endless list of items that grows each week. 30 seconds to make a bed is just the start.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#702

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

js2 wrote: post #551
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

I'm sorry that your marriage ended. > Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner let go of the little things and accept that living with another person (spou…

Thank you for the reply! I am humbled with your marriage success.

My original comment was more in response to other comments on HR that the article itself, I guess. It seems that many are quick to condemn the author rather than question why someone would place such great importance on the location of a single glass. If she Is so concerned about that one glass, it seems perhaps a signal that there are other ways in which she’s difficult to live with (meaning not easy and relaxed but fastidious and precise).

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#703

Post by selcuka »

ikr678 wrote: post #693
op00to wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My anxiety manifests in similar ways. I "do the dishes" (or whatever annoying task it is that tweaks my anxiety in the morning) before I wind down for the night. I take control of my own happiness.

I finished work around two hours before my ex. I'd get home, clean the house to my standards, declutter and only then be able to relax after work when the space was in order. They'd get home from work later, and to relax immediately discard laptop, jacket, shoes, mail around the house, get changed and leave work clothes on the floor, start making a snack and leave plates in the kitchen before I was about to make dinn…

> I never found a way to reconcile this.

I guess one sane way is to hire someone to tidy up the house on a daily basis and share the cost.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#704

Post by bromuro »

sangnoir wrote: post #364
scarby2 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> actually, resolving the argument itself is not even the issue, but knowing that we still love each other is what matters. So much this. Having been taking classes and reading up on intentional/effective communication strategies for relationships one of the key aspects is having a way to say "i love you and acknowledge your grievance however i do not have the time, energy or emotional strength to discuss this now" t…

Non-violent communication[1] is fantastic when both parties utilize it during disagreements as it helps prevent escalations. How you resolve differences is more important than the differences themselves and is foundational to any relationship. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication

A friend was following that book’s suggestions all the day. He sounded so fake. Horrible read IMO.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#706

Post by epicureanideal »

whateveracct wrote: post #694
epicureanideal wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d be glad if everybody would help change the legal implications of the marriage contract, so that it would be safe and financially reasonable to get married. But that just isn’t the case currently.

Get a prenup if it's that important to you 50/50 is a reasonable default when there isn't a prenup. Marriage is a union of souls into one. When they split, 50/50 only makes sense. If you can't get that, then you have bigger blockers besides legal ramifications to getting married.

50/50 asset split is far from the problem. Ongoing alimony after the split, excessive child support far beyond the cost of raising children , and huge legal costs to reach a slightly less terrible outcome are the problems. Not to mention the separation of fathers from children, but that often happens with or without an official marriage.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#707

Post by atq2119 »

giantg2 wrote: post #391
atq2119 wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just brainstorming here, but perhaps it was tea that she wanted to prepare herself, and the problem may have been that you "muscled your way into" a course of action that she wanted to be hers. Your analysis of the situation is problematic when you write: "I guess I won't do nice random things like start your tea from now on ." It was your wife who started the tea-making process, not you. To somebody who already feel…

I asked her for more info, but she couldn't elaborate. I don't think it was about her wanting to put the tea ball in (the tea was already in the ball from my cup, and she could put in how much honey or sugar she wanted when it was ready). The conclusion was mistated. I meant I just won't make her tea unless she asks. If it make her made and she can't tell me why, then I'm just going to avoid that situation.

Thanks for clarifying, and of course ultimately I can't know any of this since I'm just a random stranger on the internet.

I notice that you argue that it couldn't have been about her wanting to put the tea ball in because whether you or she did it would have had no impact on the objective outcome of the tea. That makes rational sense and is how a normal person under normal circumstances would see it.

Then again, stuff like the IKEA effect is real: people feel differently about a piece of furniture if they assembled it themselves, perhaps there's a bit of pride and feeling of self-worth in having done that work. That feeling is independent of the usefulness of the furniture.

In a similar vein, perhaps your wife feels the need to do certain things herself to feel in control of part of her life. Everybody wants the feeling of agency to some extent, some more, some less. Again, it's almost certainly not about the tea, but if she feels that her life is "taken over" by the relationship (and so, explicitly or implicitly in her mind, by you) and that she doesn't have enough time and space that's her own, then something small like the tea could trigger a reflex in her along the lines of "why does it always have to be like this?"

The tea is an almost ridiculously tiny symbol for asserting herself, but it's possible that she feels she has already lost the bigger ways of asserting herself and reaffirming herself in the relationship, and so she reacts badly to that small thing being taken away.

If that really is the situation, it is already a very bad state for the relationship to be in. Of course, I may be way off base.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#708

Post by icebergonfire »

bromuro wrote: post #704
sangnoir wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-violent communication[1] is fantastic when both parties utilize it during disagreements as it helps prevent escalations. How you resolve differences is more important than the differences themselves and is foundational to any relationship. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication

A friend was following that book’s suggestions all the day. He sounded so fake. Horrible read IMO.

I don't know your friend nor you, so I can only speculate.

I can tell you that during my own journey trying to Be A Better Me it took time to internalize this kind of communication framework, to stop feeling like I was putting on a front and instead make it flow naturally as if this is just a part of my personality... because it did become just a part of me.

I have acquaintances from "the before times" that feel slightly put off by this aspect of present me, because they expect me to react more impulsively (or more "real") like I used to do. Nobody's wrong here, just mismatched expectations. Now that they see this is "really" me and not a mask I'm putting on, it leads to some gentle ribbing and that's it.

So putting myself in both your shoes: maybe your friend needs time to translate the core concepts of this into his own grammar and vocabulary, and it takes to acclimate to that from the outside too.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#709

Post by jimkleiber »

pmoriarty wrote: post #647
shard wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we can quote statistics and cite studies, but the point is that the entrepreneur himself attributed his failed marriages and heart attack to the entrepreneurship.

"the entrepreneur himself attributed his failed marriages and heart attack to the entrepreneurship" Of course he did, as it made his enormous wealth seem like the result of great sacrifices. You see this all the time. Why do the rich deserve all their money? Because they made such great sacrifices and took all those tremendous risks. It's self-aggrandizement and self-justification. Low wage workers make sacrifices an…

FWIW, I remember him sounding quite dejected and sincerely questioning whether it was all worth it. It didn't seem like a "I failed big time and now I'm living on top of the world" kind of opening. I still feel sad when I think about it.

That's not to disagree with you, we often overlook the struggles and challenges of people in lower economic classes or less prestigious positions. More just to say I didn't get that humble brag vibe at all.

Oh, and I also don't know if he got paid, as I think he was an alumnus and it may have just been a volunteer speech. Again, I know there are other speeches in which people do get paid and follow the pattern you outlined, just saying I don't think this was one of them.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#710

Post by jakelazaroff »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #497
munk-a wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s never really about the dishes. The dishes are just a thing in physical space. I'd clarify that sometimes it is actually about the dishes. As someone with ADHD being in a living space with clutter slows me down and perpetuates more clutter. My solution to that is to never generate that sort of clutter - it leads to a destructive cycle I've identified in myself. If the person I'm sharing space with starts that c…

When you agree to live with another person, you agree (whether you realize it not) to also live with each other's habits, cleanliness norms, organizational norms, waking/sleeping schedule, and many other details. Being a dictator, trying to change the other person, is not going to end well. Accept the person you are living with rather than trying to change them.

This goes both ways. If you move in with someone who needs the apartment to be tidy, then living with their norms means to ensure you aren’t leaving things around. It’s just as dictator-ish for you to demand they accommodate a messy living space as it is for them to demand you accommodate a tidy one.
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