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US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

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Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#411

Post by boomboomsubban »

kyleplum wrote: post #388
boomboomsubban wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I don't see how that's relevant. Not banning trade doesn't force the countries to trade, it just gives them the choice.

> Not banning trade doesn't force the countries to trade, it just gives them the choice. And the choice made by the US is to not trade with Cuba or anyone who trades with Cuba - it's their right to make this choice.

It's not. They're free to choose who they trade with, using who that country trades with as a decider violates their autonomy.

You're just framing the violation as a choice and saying it is their right to make that choice. Sure, they also have the right to make the choice to invade Canada, but actually invading is obviously violating their autonomy.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#412

Post by s1artibartfast »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #302
formerly_proven wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since whataboutism is so hugely popular in threads involving Russia, let's talk about the nuclear SRBM dispenser formerly known as Kaliningrad Oblast located between Poland and Lithuania (that's in Central Europe). Kinda makes those American gravity nukes stationed in West Germany look old-fashioned.

The whataboutism is strong because the hypocrisy and double think is so pervasive. Many people believe in moral exceptionalism when it comes to USA foreign policy when the vast majority of the time it boils down to the same self-interested realpolitik as other countries.

TO AYBABTME:

>It's not hypocritical to want "your" side to win, and it's not from a lack of moral standing when you're motivating this taking-sides with "well, I like and wish democracies on people more than I like and wish brutal dictatorships on people". Yes, it's a "our side is better than theirs" but I think hard and yes, our "side" is indeed better than NK's, Russia's, Iran's, Cuba's. I could contort myself in saying that our side is only better insofar as it makes me ~believe that it's better, behind a veil of fake democracy. But then that's be contortionism, and not a down to earth, pragmatic look at it.

>All sides in this stuff will play realpolitik and use their armies and kill and what not. But at the end of the day, where do you want to live? In which of these regimes is life preferable?

I agree that this is the correct framework to think about things, discarding the chaff of what is fair, good guys, and bad guys.

However, I don't think that where I would want to live translates to my country can do no wrong.

For example, I would rather live in the US than Cuba, but I don't think that warrants an invasion and regime change in Cuba. I also don't think it warrants sanctions on Cuba.

I think life in the US is better than most countries, but I have a moral and logical framework that usually opposes foreign intervention and coercion.

That is to say, I don't think the US has an moral obligation to be the world police and initiate regime change around the globe

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#413

Post by ttybird2 »

tofuahdude wrote: post #346
ttybird2 wrote: post #262

Reposting it from the previous thread: He is the creator of WikiScanner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiScanner https://www.reuters.com/article/us-security-wikipedia-idUSN1... He also created Tor2web with Aaron Swartz and used to work for the tor team. Seems like an interesting guy. It's a shame that this happened. The situation is kinda similar to the one with Bobby Fischer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Fisc…

It's a shame that he took these actions or that he was punished for them?

For me personally the second. But I am sure that regardless of what we think regarding what he did, we can all agree that it's a shame that someone like that won't be around to work on cool tech due to his sentencing, kinda like with Hans Reiser.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#414

Post by grapeskin »

elliekelly wrote: post #54
etherael wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving North Korean citizens access to an economy outside their locked down one where they can engage in trade may well be the exact opposite of collaborating with the North Korean regime. This could easily be the most practical and realistic way to destroy North Korean control over its economy. If those citizens are no longer beholden to the regime for their economic livelihood and that encourages internal organisat…

How many times do we have to try this "stronger economic ties will encourage freedom/peace/democracy" theory before we accept that it only serves to enrich those who are already wealthy and doesn't do a thing to preserve peace. It perhaps even does the opposite: becomes a tool of coercion the bad actor can use to manipulate the free economies with which they trade. The free markets get hooked on the cheap $thing prov…

Vietnam is certainly a lot more relaxed than it used to be. That coincides with the world deciding to do business with them.

So far, the track record of “cut off all interactions with the country until they instate the government we want” doesn’t have a good track record. Iran, Cuba, and North Korea are still doing the same thing they were doing 50 years ago. Thinking another 50 years will change things is insanity. Let’s stop continuing this obviously failed experiment.

Sanctions are potentially effective in the short term. Once they reach the scale of entire human lifespans, you’re just making the people suffer for your own moral superiority.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#415

Post by ummonk »

WalterBright wrote: post #371
FrenchDevRemote wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Go beat/kill this guy" is violence, yet it's just words. Putin haven't killed people with his bare hands(at least for a few years...)But who wouldn't call him violent? If your sanctions cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence. I'm not against sanctions depending on the circumstances, but you're just wrong

If people don't follow Putin's orders, they get imprisoned or executed. His orders are not "just words".

Well only because people follow his orders to imprison those who aren’t following his orders.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#416

Post by mikem170 »

WalterBright wrote: post #371
FrenchDevRemote wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Go beat/kill this guy" is violence, yet it's just words. Putin haven't killed people with his bare hands(at least for a few years...)But who wouldn't call him violent? If your sanctions cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence. I'm not against sanctions depending on the circumstances, but you're just wrong

If people don't follow Putin's orders, they get imprisoned or executed. His orders are not "just words".

The same as the guy in the article was imprisoned by the United States?

EDIT: Putin puts people in jail for not following marching orders. The U.S. puts people in jail for not following sanctions. It doesn't seem logical to draw a distinction on what is or is not warlike (bullets vs sanctions) based on who jails people, since they both jail people who disobey orders. I assume other factors would be more relevant?

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#417

Post by heyoni »

zopa wrote: post #239
istjohn wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I support imprisoning anyone who helps subvert sanctions against a despotic state pursuing nuclear weapons.

No issue with your main point, but "pursuing nuclear weapons" is such a strange and revealing phrase. North Korea has nuclear weapons. They've had nuclear weapons for at least 16 years (probably over 20). The last best chance to roll back their nuclear program was in the mid-aughts, and it didn't work. Lots of good and useful steps we could pursue to reduce tensions and make an accidental nuclear war on the Korean pe…

So are they just missing ICBM’s then?

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#419

Post by threeseed »

FrenchDevRemote wrote: post #366
ambrozk wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a dumb statement every time it's asserted. Sanctions are not an act of war in any sense. Not in theory nor in a pragmatic sense. The distinction between war and other modes of interstate hostility is an important one which we should not abandon. "Sanctions are war" is the same sort of statement as "speech is violence": it's sophistic, and it collapses nuance instead of encouraging it.

"Go beat/kill this guy" is violence, yet it's just words. Putin haven't killed people with his bare hands(at least for a few years...)But who wouldn't call him violent? If your sanctions cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence. I'm not against sanctions depending on the circumstances, but you're just wrong

> cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence

Which would imply famine, poverty, the flu are forms of violence.

This distortion of the English language is so tortured it's just nonsensical at this point.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#420

Post by 8ytecoder »

FrenchDevRemote wrote: post #366
ambrozk wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a dumb statement every time it's asserted. Sanctions are not an act of war in any sense. Not in theory nor in a pragmatic sense. The distinction between war and other modes of interstate hostility is an important one which we should not abandon. "Sanctions are war" is the same sort of statement as "speech is violence": it's sophistic, and it collapses nuance instead of encouraging it.

"Go beat/kill this guy" is violence, yet it's just words. Putin haven't killed people with his bare hands(at least for a few years...)But who wouldn't call him violent? If your sanctions cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence. I'm not against sanctions depending on the circumstances, but you're just wrong

1. "Go beat/kill this guy" is specific targeted incitement.

2. Sanctions are not the same as a blockade. What you're describing is a blockade. To be more specific, suspending trade is not the same an active blockade. I haven't seen any indication to see the current sanctions could even function as a blockade.

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