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Inside the longest Atlassian outage

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Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#361

Post by grnmamba »

Phelinofist wrote: post #356
ordiel wrote: post #266

All I can say as an Attlassian Server products user is that the moment they say it was Cloud or nothing, I choose nothing. I much rather running Gittea on a raspberry pi that I CONTROL than having to have the impotence of doing nothing for more than a week. + having work at cloud companies and having been requested to "collect customer data" to hand it over to the government I would NEVER move critical pieces to anyo…

As I understood it is not "Cloud or Nothing" but "Cloud or Data Center" - is this wrong?

Unlike server, Data Center starts at 42.000$ per year.

For most SMBs, it's cloud or nothing (or a different vendor, of course).

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#362

Post by barneygale »

Crabber wrote: post #265
napolux wrote: post #147

Yeah, let's centralize the Internet (born decentralized). This is what the Internet has become.

How do we solve this problem? In other industries based on physical products there is a big incentive to buy goods as locally as possible because of reduced shipping costs, shorter shipping time, no import taxes etc. But with software it costs nothing to spin up new instances, costs nothing to deliver half way across the world, and has no delivery time. How can you convince a manager to use a software solution provid…

That's OK in principle, as long as those companies function like governments (i.e. they work to improve things rather than turn a profit, subject to constitutions, public voting, judicial review). As engineers we should embrace the efficiency of scale, but it's quite clear that it can't work under capitalism.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#363

Post by yabones »

Phelinofist wrote: post #356
ordiel wrote: post #266

All I can say as an Attlassian Server products user is that the moment they say it was Cloud or nothing, I choose nothing. I much rather running Gittea on a raspberry pi that I CONTROL than having to have the impotence of doing nothing for more than a week. + having work at cloud companies and having been requested to "collect customer data" to hand it over to the government I would NEVER move critical pieces to anyo…

As I understood it is not "Cloud or Nothing" but "Cloud or Data Center" - is this wrong?

AFAIK the Datacenter pricing starts at 500 users and goes up from there. So a small org could end up paying 5-10x what they were before on the Server license.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#364

Post by Cd00d »

stuff4ben wrote: post #347
Cd00d wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting take. Personally, I like JIRA. I think it adds a ton of transparency in our org, and while I've used Trello for personal and home projects, I don't see how it's good enough for business. Trello doesn't even allow for time estimates (last I tried), which for us is part of planning. Search in JIRA is also really good, so no ticket is ever just lost to the ether. Sure, it's not perfect, and waiting for a boa…

GitHub Enterprise and ZenHub Enterprise work well for us here @IBM, not that I speak on behalf of them, just a drone doing work.

ZenHub looks really interesting - thank you for pointing it out.

How good is ticket search? I have to be honest, JQL is the superpower that makes or breaks for me.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#365

Post by throwawayboise »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #36
h2odragon wrote: post #4

> However, if they [restore backups], while the impacted ~400 companies would get back all their data, everyone else would lose all data committed since that point OK, so you restore backups to a separate system, and selectively copy the stomped accounts data back to production. Simple concepts aren't that simple at their scale, sure, but I suspect this is skimping details on some truly horrendous monolithic architec…

I would really like to understand who makes the decision to purchase JIRA. It's like the C++ of ticketing software--it does everything because no one wanted to sit down and think critically about the use cases and instead decided it would be easier to say "yes" to every single feature request. It definitely feels like whoever is buying JIRA is not on the team who is using it (maybe IT or finance) because it ticks the…

The one place I worked that used Jira was a small-but-not-tiny company (about 15 devs at the time). The only people who actually used Jira were the managers. Developers got printed stories. These were used for planning, and were printed on cards and taped to a white board when ready. Developer would pull a card to work on, and return it to the manager when it was complete. The manager did all the status updates and reporting to upper management.

IDK if this was to cheap out on the licensing with a minimal number of users, or if it was to insulate the developers from the experience of using Jira. Perhaps some of both.

Clearly that usage pattern would only scale so far.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#366

Post by tedunangst »

x0x0 wrote: post #114
stickfigure wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have built multiple multi-tenancy platforms and I never create separate databases for each customer. If you have separate databases, it's almost impossible to run meaningful queries across all of them. That architectural choice creates far more headaches than it solves. Usually people end up with the split-database architecture when they want a quick retrofit for a system that wasn't designed with multiple tenants.…

I can't believe anyone would do separate databases. Just wait until a migration doesn't run on 2 of your 400+ customer databases. Or multi-hour migrations.

Sounds good to me. Now you've got 398 happy customers on the new version, and a small scale issue to resolve with two customers.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#367

Post by asah »

gmfawcett wrote: post #24
asah wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"first they came for ..."

Poor taste, buddy. Comparing the Atlassian mess-up to the Holocaust diminishes the Holocaust.

um... the sentiment is universal it's not specific to that particularly awful history. Sorry if it triggered you, HN doesn't offer a delete button.

FYI my ancestors fled oppression on both sides and I'm well aware that it's a miracle I'm alive.

Again, one bad thing leading to another is a common human behavior, and the Holocaust is just an extreme example that I ABSOLUTELY did not intend whatsoever. You make this connection, not me.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#368

Post by robertlagrant »

Spivak wrote: post #220
ezekg wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the database schema migrations...

Having worked at shops that used this architecture it's really not that bad. Can you write the code to do one schema migration? Great, now you can do 1000. App server boots and runs the schema migrations, drops privs and launches the app. Now you've staved off your scaling issues from "how to have a db large enough to hold all our customer data" to "how to have a db large enough to hold our biggest customer's data."…

You can write the code to do 1000 schema migrations, but the problem is if you've migrated 40% of them and hit an issue. What do?

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#370

Post by robertlagrant »

some-guy wrote: post #56
radicaldreamer wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I'm not actually sure... maybe someone who's experienced in backend db can elucidate here. Is it not a good idea to spin up separate db instances for each client/company?

The company I work at (Workday) does this, but it's for business / liability reasons.

Bearing in mind the licence fees of Workday, the costs of separate databases pale in comparison!
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