Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Inside the longest Atlassian outage

newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 772 posts

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#301

Post by [deleted] »

codycraven wrote: post #185
closeparen wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JIRA is a framework for making assembly lines out of knowledge workers. When you're a middle manager at a decent sized company, a major problem you face is that the mass of knowledge workers beneath you are opaque : you have no way of knowing whether they're working or not. Another problem you face is that they're uppity : people who went to college and got used to managing their own time now have all kinds of idiosy…

It sounds like you've been hurt by the some terrible management practices, I'm truly sorry that some managers think their job is to control their subordinates. However, regarding ticketing systems, in team environments, it is very effective and helpful to have a system that manages the data about the work that has been completed, is being worked, and is planned to be worked on . Part of that system might be defining…

[deleted]

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#302

Post by histriosum »

yabones wrote: post #215

What's a good Jira replacement? Redmine? Phabricator? OpenProject? Just leaving the jira server alone and hoping there's no new and exciting zero-days? One thing is clear, these guys are a bunch of cowboys who can't be trusted with any amount of data.

I've used Request Tracker for years. It's not pretty, it's written in Perl, but I can fairly easily make it do all the ticket tracking flows I care about and it just runs and runs and runs. My scale is admittedly small, but I put tens of thousands of tickets per year through my instance, and i basically never have to touch it unless I'm setting up a new queue or different flow for something.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#303

Post by WC3w6pXxgGd »

yabones wrote: post #215

What's a good Jira replacement? Redmine? Phabricator? OpenProject? Just leaving the jira server alone and hoping there's no new and exciting zero-days? One thing is clear, these guys are a bunch of cowboys who can't be trusted with any amount of data.

No post body was provided.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#304

Post by teling2 »

ollien wrote: post #137
jacquesm wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is very difficult to maintain relational integrity during a restore like that.

Gotcha. I guess you could be heavy-handed and disable foreign key checks, but who knows what other bugs that would bring into the mix.

The other difficulty is if you don't restore the entire state in a single transaction. Imagine you have partial data restored in Table A but haven't updated Table B correspondingly. Now some other program that consumes Table A and Table B and doesn't have error handling will crash (or worse, mutate state in other weird ways).

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#306

Post by treesknees »

rjmunro wrote: post #271
sodality2 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing to do business-wise, or as a good faith move?

What's the difference?

Good faith would be to lose all of that money to people who are already your customers.

Business-wise would be to stay in their good graces and keep those customers by offering the refund, but you don't lose any money to those who either don't care or won't move to a competitor.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#307

Post by grog454 »

a4isms wrote: post #76
RandallBrown wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people buy JIRA because you can set it up however you want. I've seen it almost as simple as Trello and much more complicated. It doesn't have to be terrible, it just usually is. If JIRA didn't allow you to make it terrible, it wouldn't allow for some of the absurd things that people want it for and those companies might not buy it.

They used to say of Microsoft Word, "Nobody uses more than 5% of its features, but every company uses a different 5%." The saying is apocryphal and unlikely to be accurate, but the shape of the thing its describing applies to almost every piece of enterprise software whether installed on-prem or SaaS. And as another comment points out, at Enterprise scale you can substitute "team" or "group" for customer. Every team…

>"Nobody uses more than 5% of its features, but every company uses a different 5%."

>The saying is apocryphal and unlikely to be accurate

Well its mathematically impossible to be accurate as soon as you have > 20 users.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#308

Post by tedivm »

bombcar wrote: post #237
originalvichy wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had to correct this too many times already. Server is the name of the deployment type of their on-prem. It means single node non-clustered. Data center is their deployment that supports clustering to multiple nodes (and used to support a few extra features). They are retiring the Server deployment type licenses and pushing everyone to data center or cloud. So no, they aren’t EOLing their on-prem.

The cost of server was lower and fixed (buy it once), the cost of datacenter is MUCH higher (minimum 500 users, pay per year). Which is even more amusing when you realize Server has been Datacenter with a fake mustache for years now.

The datacenter product also seems geared towards people reselling Atlassian stacks. For example there's a company that offers HIPAA compliant Confluence (complete with signing a BAA, so you can actual store PHI on it). It doesn't seem like a great replacement for the server version.

Re: Inside the longest Atlassian outage

#309

Post by agalunar »

codycraven wrote: post #185
closeparen wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JIRA is a framework for making assembly lines out of knowledge workers. When you're a middle manager at a decent sized company, a major problem you face is that the mass of knowledge workers beneath you are opaque : you have no way of knowing whether they're working or not. Another problem you face is that they're uppity : people who went to college and got used to managing their own time now have all kinds of idiosy…

It sounds like you've been hurt by the some terrible management practices, I'm truly sorry that some managers think their job is to control their subordinates. However, regarding ticketing systems, in team environments, it is very effective and helpful to have a system that manages the data about the work that has been completed, is being worked, and is planned to be worked on . Part of that system might be defining…

Caveat: this is going to be a meta comment rather than a comment about the topic proper, and so maybe not appropriate for HN, but I think it's worth discussing.

> It sounds like you've been hurt by the some terrible management practices, I'm truly sorry that some managers think their job is to control their subordinates.

When we assume someone was hurt, and imply they hold an opinion only because they were hurt, we risk delegitimizing their position. The interpolated message we might be sending is "your experience is personal and not representative of the subject at hand, and so your thoughts are only applicable to your situation; so, after we express our sympathy, your thoughts can be dismissed." Or the message we might be sending can be patronizing: "you hold your opinion for emotional, rather than rational, reasons; I'm sorry that you are so unfortunate."

To be clear, though, I'm sure this wasn't your intent, and it makes me glad to see someone being compassionate (i.e. that you bothered to consider the experiences and feelings of the parent commenter).

A personal story: I was raised devoutly religious but left the church in my twenties. My family and friends assumed I left because I wanted to be free from guilt, had been hurt by a culture that belied the doctrine, and so on (and they said as much). My change of belief occurred after recovering from a few years of mental illness, and while it is true that I may not have left when I did were it not for the opportunity to reexamine my beliefs (while trying to piece back the fragments of my life into a sense of self), the reasons why I left were the result of a lot of research and thinking. It was mildly frustrating when people assumed my decision was made for emotional convenience, when in reality, the research was uncomfortable and contemplating an unfamiliar universe was scary.

I recognize the irony here – the issue I'm highlighting in this comment may be something that only I feel is an issue, born from a personal experience. But I think it's more common than that.

Post reply on HN