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US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

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Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#271

Post by ttybird2 »

tomatowurst wrote: post #244
chatmasta wrote: post #48

I met Virgil at an academic workshop back in 2014. We went out in Amsterdam. He was a weird guy, to say the least (he’d probably be the first to agree). He was generally quite affable and obviously highly intelligent. He’s an idiot for this fiasco. But it’s also sad to see him in jail; I don’t see how this benefits society in any way. Five years in prison seems like a disproportionate punishment for an arguably victi…

How in the world do you see this victimless? North Korea has been violating human rights in it's own borders and South Korea. It has nukes pointed at Seoul holding it and US troops hostage. I can't believe he only got 5 years in jail for this. It should've been life imprisonment for aiding and abetting terrorist organizations like North Korea. Can you say the same for someone caught laundering money for Hamas or ISIS…

"How in the world do you see this victimless?"

Just because NK has victims does not mean that his actions have victims as well.

"It has nukes pointed at Seoul"

Every nuclear country has their nukes pointed at somewhere. US included.

"holding ... US troops hostage"

I really do not get what you mean by this.

"It should've been life imprisonment"

It is easy to call for absurd amounts of vengeful punishment towards someone that poses no danger.

"for aiding and abetting terrorist organizations like North Korea"

I think that your definition of "terrorist organization" is too wide. Might as well call the US a terrorist organization at that point.

"Can you say the same for someone caught laundering money for Hamas or ISIS? That it's a victimless crime?"

He did not launder money. He just did a cryptocurrency presentation.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#272

Post by jacquesm »

xtracto wrote: post #159
danielvf wrote: post #71

According to the original complaint, a few months after being interviewed by an FBI agent on returning from his trip to North Korea, Griffith had the following conversation over text messages: Griffith: I need to send 1 [REDACTED UNIT OF CRYPTOCURRENCY] between North and South Korea. Other Guy: "Isn't that in violations of sanctions?" Griffith: It is. A few day later, also in text messages to someone else: Someone: W…

> I need to send 1 [REDACTED UNIT OF CRYPTOCURRENCY] between North and South Korea I find this fascinating. How can you send any crypto between one country and the other? In reality, everyone who is using crypto is doing the transaction in every country where a validator/node is running. There is no concept of "sending BTC between Mexico and the USA". There may be a concept of someone paying USD money to somebody els…

The same argument was trotted out when evaluating (in the early days of the web) a crime had committed if 'the internet' had been involved because the internet was global. But that didn't hold any water and I don't think in a world defined by 'endpoints' it is going to matter much here. Who verifies a transaction isn't relevant, who is the ultimate beneficiary and who is the sender are the relevant bits.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#273

Post by ericd »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #147
pen2l wrote: post #20

Did his PhD at Caltech under Christof Koch in computation and neural systems, was a super talented mathematician... and then he gets involved in crypto. I remember conversations with friends only a few years ago in which we would lament how young brilliant minds were eventually going on to work on adtech, and we would sigh and hope that the tide would turn. Boy, we were not prepared for this tide. Anyway, the NYSD re…

The sad thing is that smart people are going to crypto because there is easy money to be made and not because they support decentralisation and fighting the government

Doubt it, it's likely more because it's interesting, and there're interesting things to be done with it.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#274

Post by Lanolderen »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #201
tcgv wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonetheless two wrongs don't make a right.

sure, Im not saying that they do make it right. I am pointing out the conspicuous hypocrisy that people don't feel that they have blood on their hands for paying US taxes, but aiding NK in any way is a mortal sin.

I find this comparison extremely weird.

North korean prisons are described as hellholes whereas US prisons actually seem decent to me (eastern european) if we exclude that you likely won't have the best of company.

Plus that only a small amount of taxes go towards the prison system.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#275

Post by axlee »

rbanffy wrote: post #265
mywittyname wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five years seems pretty mild when you consider the chief purpose of sanctions is to provide an alternative to war as a means of settling disputes. And this man is willfully undermining the ability of his country to levy sanctions. Surely actively undermining the security of ones country is a serious offense.

> as a means of settling disputes As a means of forcing someone to unwillingly settle a dispute in your favor that is. I have no sympathy for North Korea, but sanctions are not an alternative to war. Sanctions are an alternative to bullets.

> As a means of forcing someone to unwillingly settle a dispute in your favor that is.

what kind of strange take it is? What do you think war is ?

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#276

Post by locallost »

If North Korea did this, it would be further proof that they're a dictatorship. But alas, where they have their ruthless dictator, we have our* rule of law.

*I am not American.

I wish I get to see in my lifetime that this vicious misuse of moral values by the US finally ends, but I am not optimistic. By misuse I mean pretending that certain actions are done on moral grounds, while looking the other way when they or their allies do the same things.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#277

Post by jacquesm »

dragonwriter wrote: post #250
s1artibartfast wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison is striking. Kennedy ordered a naval "quarantine" to prevent missiles from reaching Cuba. By using the term "quarantine" rather than "blockade" (an act of war by legal definition), the United States was able to avoid the implications of a state of war. After several days of tense negotiations, an agreement was reached between Kennedy and Khrushchev. Publicly, the Soviets would dismantle their offensive…

> Russia did invade Ukraine a second time. In the real world, Russia never stopped the first invasion, it just consolidated, worked to advance, and then massively escalated.

And they are now looking to do the same thing again.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#278

Post by drc500free »

chickenpotpie wrote: post #19
ceejayoz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s Time to Stop Using the ‘Fire in a Crowded Theater’ Quote: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim... Three Generations of a Hackneyed Apologia for Censorship Are Enough: https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...

I read the Atlantic article, but I don't think they made a strong enough argument to justify retiring the quote. Regardless of the circumstances that it was first used, it's meaning is still very true. It is still illegal to yell fire in a crowded theater and there are many exceptions to the first amendment. An american citizen cannot verbally harass someone, they cannot share child pornography, and they cannot go ar…

I think most people believe that the "yelling fire in a crowded theater" precedent came from an actual case about someone yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater.

As opposed to being a hypothetical situation invented to justify the use of state violence to silence anti-war protestors. No one goes around saying "you can't be against a war!" when that is the actual precedent that was set in that case.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#279

Post by ipaddr »

tomatowurst wrote: post #257
tomphoolery wrote: post #103

He should be in jail for longer. What a traitor.

I'm no lawyer but I can only dream that they might find more stuff to throw the book at him but somehow i doubt this. How you go and help a country that your own country is at war with, starves women and children, sends a prisoner's entire family to prison camps for three generations where do all sorts of horrible things and spend only 5 years in prison. People have been sent to prison far longer just because they ha…

The santions are resposible for starving women/children. Should he be in prison for helping children eat?

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#280

Post by jacquesm »

tptacek wrote: post #166
chatmasta wrote: post #48

I met Virgil at an academic workshop back in 2014. We went out in Amsterdam. He was a weird guy, to say the least (he’d probably be the first to agree). He was generally quite affable and obviously highly intelligent. He’s an idiot for this fiasco. But it’s also sad to see him in jail; I don’t see how this benefits society in any way. Five years in prison seems like a disproportionate punishment for an arguably victi…

Leaving aside the questions of whether this is a victimless crime, amply addressed by sibling comments, I'd like to point out that people like Virgil Griffith benefit from these sympathetic assessments, in large part for being part of our in-group, but most defendants do not. You wouldn't want to live in a system where these kinds of sentiments actually controlled even more than they already do.

People engaging in acts like this should automatically be no longer considered to be part of the 'in group' but part of another group called 'criminals'. And in this case a very special kind of criminal: one that knowingly aids a regime that is beyond despicable.
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