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You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

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Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#21

Google Meet at least it's very obvious to tell they do this because if you talk while muted, they will show a pop-up saying that you're talking but you're muted. Whether this functionality is justification for more nefarious data usage remains to be seen.

Couldn’t this be done by using some ML on the video stream?

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#22
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of the mutes for external mics still do it in software. The software may run on the microphone itself and not the host computer, but still. I don't trust it. Give me something that interrupts a circuit. Many laptops (notably including MacBooks) can be damaged by even fairly thin camera covers. Which sucks, because they should very obviously be standard .

Most MacBooks are also designed so the camera “on” light is impossible to disable in software.

Some hardware up there must be active and sending data even when the light's not on. It's how they make the (excellent, can hardly live without it now that I'm used to it) automatic monitor color temp adjustment work, AFAIK. Though maybe that's a separate sensor from the camera proper.

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#23

Google Meet at least it's very obvious to tell they do this because if you talk while muted, they will show a pop-up saying that you're talking but you're muted. Whether this functionality is justification for more nefarious data usage remains to be seen.

I have to cough a lot, so I have a headset with a flip-to-mute mic. As a result, I don't generally use in-software mute effects. :/

In Google Meet, the UI will change to show that it thinks you have hardware muted the microphone and so "unmuting" the Meet software won't help. I think it's a red ! mark or similar. All my USB headsets have hardware mute.

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#24

I feel like they're trying to make an insidious suggestion about the usage of these. IMO, there's likely a good reason - user experience. At a hardware level, grabbing the microphone can take time. Even worse that timing is inconsistent across devices, workloads, etc. That leads to a bad experience when unmuting and needing to delay your commentary. The solution to this is to keep the microphone on, but mute at a sof…

Teams has a notice that it pops up if you're talking and on mute, and there's another for if you're not on mute but your mic is producing no signal (mic has it's own mute). I find those super helpful, personally.

I hate the latter, because I use a keyboard shortcut to mute/unmute the microphone on the OS-level. This works fine with Google Meet, but in Microsoft Teams I have to use the button in its UI because that pop-up gets in the way (also: Teams not working at all in Firefox, what's up with that?).

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#25

Google Meet at least it's very obvious to tell they do this because if you talk while muted, they will show a pop-up saying that you're talking but you're muted. Whether this functionality is justification for more nefarious data usage remains to be seen.

Once I was on Teams meeting and someone exclaimed “We can see your screen, systemvoltage!”. Sure as hell, I wasn’t sharing anything. Thankfully I wasn’t browsing HN, but writing code.

These things implemented somewhere in the middle of the stack seems dangerous. I much more prefer a slider switch. Preferably made from real atoms and molecules.

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#27
I'm fine that the app locally still processes the audio stream - even if I'm muted - to show me a warning if I start talking while muted etc. The alarming part in the article is that at least one app would still send the audio stream _to the server_ while being muted. Any mentioning which "popular app" that is?

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#28

Google Meet at least it's very obvious to tell they do this because if you talk while muted, they will show a pop-up saying that you're talking but you're muted. Whether this functionality is justification for more nefarious data usage remains to be seen.

Couldn’t this be done by using some ML on the video stream?

Probably the user experience would not be as good, though, since it'd be an audio-only feature that only works if you've enabled video.

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#29
At least as far as not giving up microphone access is concerned, when using Bluetooth headphones, this is very much desirable:

Deactivating the microphone usually is seen as a signal by the OS to switch Bluetooth headphones from two-way conferencing mode (low latency, mediocre quality) back to "music" mode (high latency, good quality). This usually takes 2-3 seconds and disrupts all sound being played (most notably other people talking in the meeting).

I wouldn't want that to happen every time I mute myself.

Continuing to send data to the conferencing bridge is indeed quite shady. Hopefully this would just be (encrypted) silence or comfort noise parameters, which can be useful to e.g. keep NAT mappings alive.

Re: You’re muted – or are you? Videoconferencing apps may listen when mic is off

#30

I feel like they're trying to make an insidious suggestion about the usage of these. IMO, there's likely a good reason - user experience. At a hardware level, grabbing the microphone can take time. Even worse that timing is inconsistent across devices, workloads, etc. That leads to a bad experience when unmuting and needing to delay your commentary. The solution to this is to keep the microphone on, but mute at a sof…

On Linux at least, Teams continue to grab the microphone even after the meeting has ended. You can see this by looking at apps registered for "recording".

I'm not sure how that can be justified. Besides privacy, the issue is that this prevents the sound card from going to sleep, which may be an issue on laptops. But I guess this is insignificant compared to the rest of Teams' power consumption.

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