A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem • Hacker News Board

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#191

Post by khalilravanna » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

mswen wrote: post #103

NortySpock wrote: post #48

"Is this hill worth dieing on?" is a question I occasionally ask myself. Other ways to put it: "Would taking 10 seconds to do this now make my wife 1% less stressed?" (If so, do the thing to make her less stressed.) "Is it worth starting a fight vs spending the same time just fixing the problem?" "Would spending $COST_OF_THING make my wife happy for a day / make a fond memory of us together?" (Hence why I encourage m…

Your comment reminds me of the following. My wife and I have been married over 30 years now. Our total household is 7 persons. A couple years ago, my wife was complaining once again about someone using scissors and not bringing them back to their proper storage place. "How can we have 3 pair of scissors and none of them are here when I need to use one?" This didn't bother me but hearing her complain about it did both…

This is really smart. You're right we often fixate on "the principle of the matter" instead of just stepping back and looking for an easy solution and then moving on with our lives.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#192

Post by nineplay » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:23 PM UTC

I'm the messy one ( and the wife ) in our situation and this article has made me think about my relationship.

My takeaway is that I can sit and pout that my partner shouldn't be overreacting to a glass and I can sit and pout and say why should I be the one to change, why can't he change.

Or I can stay married. If I'm going to get caught up in my marriage being 'fair' I'm going to lose. There have to be times when I 'lose' because I give in and he doesn't. I have to trust that there will be times when he 'loses' because he's giving in when I don't.

It's that trust that's important. Not each little niggling fight but a trust that the other person is going to value you over valuing some abstract concept of fair. If I show a willingness to overcome my preferences for his sake, then he's going to be more willing to overcome his preferences for my sake.

It's easy to get stuck on fair but that turns hundreds of little things into battlegrounds.

If I trust that he's a loving caring person than I should be willing to lose. If I don't trust that, then we're already done.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#193

Post by em-bee » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #100

didgeoridoo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I am on the other side of this in my marriage — my wife leaves her water glass out (sometimes for days) because she “might want to use it again”. It bothered me, so I put it in the dishwasher. She didn’t like that, so I stopped doing it. And I got over the fact that there are sometimes six or seven half-full glasses around the house at any time, because I am not a petty psychotic who would take something so…

My wife put some water in the microwave for tea and left the room. When it was done, I put the tea ball in it and set the timer for her. Thinking that she would be back in the room in a few minutes and the timer would let her know it was ready. Instead of thank you for starting her tea, I was told I was "too controlling". Ok... I guess I won't do nice random things like start your tea from now on.

did you talk about it afterwards? being "too controlling" is a very serious accusation and points to something deeper. don't just dismiss her complaint but try to understand it. also try to explain to her in what spirit you made the tee for her.

you think you were doing a random nice thing, she felt you are controlling, so clearly she didn't feel you did something nice to her.

this makes me think about the book "the five love languages". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Love_Languages

the idea is that we each have different ways in which we express and perceive love. so for you random acts of kindness are one way, but your wife may not be aware of that. i'd talk to her about that. maybe read the book together or at least talk about the different ways to show love and what you each prefer.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#194

Post by MisterBastahrd » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #167

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #55

"My wife left me because she's either ridiculous and unwilling to compromise on trivial shit, or incomprehensibly dense" is a much shorter and more succinct than an entire book, but I guess they don't pay people for that. His articles all read as pathetic blame-porn aimed at satisfying the egos of women, while pretending to be advice aimed at men, and even though his only skills are apparently being someone who got d…

the problem wasn't the dishes or any other issue. the problem was that he preferred to agree to disagree instead of coming to a compromise. that's pretty dismissive. that doesn't mean it's all his fault, but we don't know what her attempts to resolve the issue were.

This might come as a shock, but compromise isn't simply "doing what she wants you to do, when she wants you to do it." That's not a relationship.

This wasn't a pile of dirty dishes. It was a drinking glass that was going to be reused. Maybe she comes from an upper-middle to upper class household where everything got put away at all times, but where I come from, you don't waste dishwater on something you're going to reuse anyway.

It's one thing if they pile up. It's quite another if there's a cup or two on the counter that you are using.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#195

Post by jelliclesfarm » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:29 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #183

giantg2 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife put some water in the microwave for tea and left the room. When it was done, I put the tea ball in it and set the timer for her. Thinking that she would be back in the room in a few minutes and the timer would let her know it was ready. Instead of thank you for starting her tea, I was told I was "too controlling". Ok... I guess I won't do nice random things like start your tea from now on.

Don't take this the wrong way but after reading several of your comments in this thread, it does seem that you should be leaving her. That, or start communicating about what makes her get angry over stuff like this; what makes her feel ignored or under-appreciated that she bursts when you make a nice and very cute gesture for her. My wife kisses me when she forgets about her tea and I do it for her. EVERY TIME, no ex…

That is lovely…very healthy. The most important words in a relationship are: ‘thank you’ and ‘sorry’…and they should be heartfelt and mentioned appropriately.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#196

Post by scarmig » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #171

toomuchtodo wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't recommend this book enough on the topic. TLDR Women are more picky then Men in the courtship marketplace, and finding a partner with matching values is most important to growing and staying together. People expect a fairy tale, when they're signing up for a job (relationships require work and effort). A quote from the author 10 years post publishing: “I think the book is really, ironically, about having highe…

> People expect a fairy tale, when they're signing up for a job. Nope. BS. And I am saying this as a guy with one failed marriage and now with a super happy one going stronger than before even, 8 years down the line. Stop perpetuating work ethic when it comes to feelings and partnership, please. Relationships can be beautiful in literally every way. Maybe just keep looking and don't generalize because that makes you…

The key is to find someone who is actually attracted to you. Not in a "oh I guess I can tolerate kissing you" type of way, but in a "I often fantasize about touching your body" type of way.

Mutual sexual attraction makes it possible to develop that type of relationship, but a lot of the time men in particular settle for less.

I strongly encourage anyone who doesn't have that type of relationship and wants one to break things off. Even if there's only a 25% chance you think you could find someone like that, it's worth it: it makes everything nearly effortless, and the relationship becomes filled with joy and not drudgery.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#197

Post by zarzavat » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:30 PM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #70

igetspam wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems as though people are focusing on the hook and not the core argument. The author clearly states his marriage failed from "death by a thousand papercuts" and this glass-by-the-sink is an example of not understanding their spouse.

I’m shocked by how many people in this thread have been completely derailed thinking the literal glass is the issue rather than being symbolic of the issue. I always hated how much teachers would drill symbolism and literary device analysis into you in school but then I come across threads like this I wonder whether we aren’t focusing on it enough.

That depends whether you think leaving a glass by the sink is a cut at all.

In that case there’s two options:

1. The author is not mentioning more consequential problems that happened in their marriage, or doesn’t know the real reason their marriage ended.

2. There were no more consequential problems and the author is blaming themselves for what seems like an unreasonable spouse.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#198

Post by NateEag » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:31 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #130

xorcist wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Acting as if the tea was the core of the problem here is a sure way to get nowhere.

What do you mean?

It sounds to me like your wife's reaction was not actually about the tea.

If she described that as "too controlling", that likely indicates she perceives you as too controlling overall.

Regardless of the truth of her perceptions, they're all she has to go on in life, so it's her perceptions that matter, not the "objective truth" of whether you're controlling.

I don't know you or your wife at all - my analysis could be way off in a lot of ways.

Whatever the issue here is, though, it's not the tea itself. There is some negative perception or idea she has that you triggered when you helped make her tea. I strongly recommend you try to figure out what's beneath the surface there. It could be rooted in your behaviors, or it might go back to how other people in her life have treated her, or some combination. It could be that she's a flaming control freak who can't stand anyone doing anything that seems to her like a threat to her agency. I don't have enough context to have much of a clue.

Writing it off with "Okay, not gonna do that again" internally was a dangerous pattern for me - it led me to ignore issues for years instead of trying to deal with them head-on.

Warning: For me, dealing with these issues head-on was a painful, difficult road littered with ugly realizations about both myself and my spouse. Dealing with the pain and issues now beats waiting until they're worse down the road, though.

I found Marshall Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication extremely helpful in learning to dig into what's under the surface of incidents like this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#199

Post by pdimitar » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:32 PM UTC

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #195

pdimitar wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't take this the wrong way but after reading several of your comments in this thread, it does seem that you should be leaving her. That, or start communicating about what makes her get angry over stuff like this; what makes her feel ignored or under-appreciated that she bursts when you make a nice and very cute gesture for her. My wife kisses me when she forgets about her tea and I do it for her. EVERY TIME, no ex…

That is lovely…very healthy. The most important words in a relationship are: ‘thank you’ and ‘sorry’…and they should be heartfelt and mentioned appropriately.

Agreed with every word. Being genuinely appreciative and expressing it -- "thank you" -- and recognizing if you're being petty or stubborn and expressing it -- "sorry" -- really did wonders for my relationship. Somewhere at the ~7 year mark it started getting even better than it was before that.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#200

Post by notacoward » Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:33 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #145

notacoward wrote: post #66

My wife and I wrote our own marriage vows. The first two were pretty conventional (stay together, share joys and sorrows). The third was the most important IMO and also hardest to keep. "Treat each other's needs and priorities as equal to our own" If you don't think it's hard, try it. I don't mean just respecting each other's time and attention in a general sense, which BTW I've come to believe is a good rule for all…

"Treat each other's needs and priorities as equal to our own" i'd go a step further and say that we each are responsible for each others needs and priorities. at least the important ones. my job is to enable and support your needs and priorities, and your job is to enable and support mine. your needs are actually more important than my own. this of course only works if we both understand, agree and respect on what ea…

Can't sign on with that. Subordinating one's own desires to the other or to the relationship like that isn't healthy, even if it's mutual, and I'm pretty sure my own marriage wouldn't have lasted this long if either of us had tried it. "Two servants" doesn't work. I think O. Henry even wrote a story about where it leads, and can lead even with the best of communication. Consciously or no, sooner or later one person will demand more and - lacking any directive that would pull things back into balance - you'll have an unequal relationship. IMO treating each other's needs as exactly equal, no less but also no more, does provide the necessary pull toward the center and thus is more sustainable long term.