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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#171

Post by pdimitar »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #75
bombcar wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very important lesson - the chance of finding a "perfect" partner is vanishingly small if considered in the normal view - but the chance of finding someone who is willing to work together is higher. And most marriages are "arranged" in some way or another, we just like to pretend that random chance plays little part and somehow we've got it down to a science.

I can't recommend this book enough on the topic. TLDR Women are more picky then Men in the courtship marketplace, and finding a partner with matching values is most important to growing and staying together. People expect a fairy tale, when they're signing up for a job (relationships require work and effort). A quote from the author 10 years post publishing: “I think the book is really, ironically, about having highe…

> People expect a fairy tale, when they're signing up for a job.

Nope. BS. And I am saying this as a guy with one failed marriage and now with a super happy one going stronger than before even, 8 years down the line.

Stop perpetuating work ethic when it comes to feelings and partnership, please. Relationships can be beautiful in literally every way. Maybe just keep looking and don't generalize because that makes you look bitter. Is that your intent?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#172

Post by bachmeier »

jugg1es wrote: post #19
axilmar wrote: post #15

The problem in the case mentioned in the article was not with the writer that left the glass by the sink, it's with the other person that was bothered with something so minor...usually these minor things are excuses that cover deeper problems. Above all, marriage is a series of compromises: you give up something for something else. You can't have it all. Personally, I put up with my wife's problematic-for-me but not-…

Isn't that what the author is saying? The deeper problem was that the wife felt that the authors' inability to do something so simple for her sake was indicative of disrespect. Not acknowledging that your partner is worth a couple seconds of consideration is a pretty deep problem. The author probably demonstrated this disrespect in multiple ways, but the glass by the sink is a succinct way of summarizing the whole pr…

To be completely honest, I got the point, but I don't think this is good writing. Did anyone learn anything from the article? Probably not. Did anyone do any deeper thinking because of the article? Probably not.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#173

Post by Biologist123 »

raldi wrote: post #29
ay wrote: post #8

It’s very simple. If something is minor for you but your partner prompts you extensively that it triggers them - change yourself. The willingness to listen and change yourself is what signals your love. Because everything else is much easier.

“I like leaving my glass by the sink, but I know you really hate it. Tell you what, I’ll stop doing it (which is not a concession that it’s wrong) as an act of love for you.” Then they express gratitude, and before you know it, you’ll get a favor like that back on something you really care about.

Niiice.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#174

Post by trgn »

gizmo686 wrote: post #153
elliekelly wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m shocked by how many people in this thread have been completely derailed thinking the literal glass is the issue rather than being symbolic of the issue. I always hated how much teachers would drill symbolism and literary device analysis into you in school but then I come across threads like this I wonder whether we aren’t focusing on it enough.

The water cup example isn't symbolic, it is prototypical. That is to say, it is meant to be a representative example of the a metaphorical paper cut. People in this thread are latching on to it for the same reason the author used it; it is not clear how else to talk about the larger issue. Different interepratations of the prototypical example leads to different interperatations of the larger issue. If you must use e…

We were replying at the same time and crossposted. You said it better. As a reader, I would have loved to have more examples.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#175

Post by epicureanideal »

The most important marriage lesson is: don’t get married. The person you marry is not the person you divorce. You can lose a huge amount of money battling it out even if YOU bend over backwards to be reasonable. If you want to flip a coin to see if you lose ten years of earnings, then marriage is for you.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#176

Post by elliekelly »

gizmo686 wrote: post #153
elliekelly wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m shocked by how many people in this thread have been completely derailed thinking the literal glass is the issue rather than being symbolic of the issue. I always hated how much teachers would drill symbolism and literary device analysis into you in school but then I come across threads like this I wonder whether we aren’t focusing on it enough.

The water cup example isn't symbolic, it is prototypical. That is to say, it is meant to be a representative example of the a metaphorical paper cut. People in this thread are latching on to it for the same reason the author used it; it is not clear how else to talk about the larger issue. Different interepratations of the prototypical example leads to different interperatations of the larger issue. If you must use e…

> The water cup example isn't symbolic, it is prototypical.

Thank you! I knew there had to be a better word to describe it but all I could think of was "exemplary" and that didn't feel quite right.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#177

Post by rednerrus »

I wonder what John Gottman would say? My guess is he would recommend something like this: https://www.gottman.com/blog/manage-conflict-the-art-of-comp..., https://www.gottman.com/blog/two-views-every-conflict-valid/, https://www.gottman.com/blog/for-better-or-for-worse-conflic..., or https://www.gottman.com/blog/overcoming-gridlocked-conflict/.

This is surprisingly, to me at least, a mostly solved problem. When I started having conflicts with my wife over similar issues I dug into the research and found that most of this is surprisingly easy, in principle. In practice it's a lot harder but reading a handful of books goes a long way.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#178

Post by em-bee »

giantg2 wrote: post #83
snarf21 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Divorced and looking back, the root cause of this (in my experience) is a lack of empathy. Love is easy to come by while empathy requires walking in someone else's shoes. I understand this Same Fight because I lived through that. It is never about that thing, it is about not being seen. As the author is processing his divorce, it is good he sees that there is value in doing something selflessly. However, I can't help…

"Force the other person to plan weeks of meals, keep the pantry stocked, etc. shines a bigger light on the unseen work and value each partner is providing." If my wife were doing this, our grocery bill would double and it would all be frozen dinners and takeout. I'm not sure I trust her to do safety critical mechanic work either. So maybe switching isn't great for some tasks. Edit: It seems people disagree. Why? All…

If my wife were doing this, our grocery bill would double and it would all be frozen dinners and takeout.

that's pretty dismissive. do you know this from experience? have you tried it? that's the point. not the outcome. does your wife understand the effort you go through? does she respect that? does she want it?

the point is not to train each other to be equally suited to every task, but to better understand each other.

if you are both happy with the arrangement as it is then you don't need to do anything, but but if one of you is unhappy about the efforts of the other then it may help to bring these things to light.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#180

Post by charles_f »

Laterally relevant, I once left a company for this exact reason. Tons of little things making life impossible - no way to push for your ideas, admin BS for no good reason, CEO wanting to be Steve J a bit too much, meetings at 8:30AM (with multiple kids, it's a challenge), a few bad apples, pixel-perfectness, etc. All stuff that, one by one wouldn't matter, but overall made my grind my teeth sufficiently for me to leave. It was very hard for me to explain well why I didn't enjoy work, as all these seemed trivial and unimportant and made me feel like a dick for leaving. Overall I think the underlying reason was that things were a certain way and there was no way of influencing them whatsoever.

Looking back I think the problem was also partially with me not accepting smaller things ; but there is such a thing as death by a 1000 paper cuts.

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