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US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

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Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#11

Post by vmception »

flerchin wrote: post #6

I would love to hear from Mr Griffith's perspective on this. 5 years in prison is a BFD. I wonder how the arrest went down, why he took a plea, what the details of his presentation were, so many things.

> I wonder how the arrest went down

At the airport upon return

> Why he took a plea

Because the prosecutor would ask for way more prison time otherwise, the US International Emergency Economic Powers Act charge was pretty solid

> what the details of his presentation were

Information the North Koreans could have found already, even with their limited internet

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#12

Post by happytoexplain »

SkyBelow wrote: post #4

Could someone explain why this wouldn't fall under freedom of speech? Sounds like there were not government secrets nor did the expert have a security clearance that would have held him to a higher standard. If Tor researchers gave a presentation at a security conference on how to install Tor, knowing full well that some would use it to engage in the proliferation of CSAM, would that also not fall under free speech?

The issue is not the subjective "will this be used for evil", but the more objective "does this violate international sanctions", which it seems to. It has very little to do directly/exclusively with cryptocurrency or crypto in general.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#13

Post by chickenpotpie »

SkyBelow wrote: post #4

Could someone explain why this wouldn't fall under freedom of speech? Sounds like there were not government secrets nor did the expert have a security clearance that would have held him to a higher standard. If Tor researchers gave a presentation at a security conference on how to install Tor, knowing full well that some would use it to engage in the proliferation of CSAM, would that also not fall under free speech?

Same reason you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. There are limits to freedom of speech, especially when it interferes with national defense. Schenck v. United States is an interesting case where the supreme court ruled that passing out fliers to encourage resistance to the draft is not protected by the first amendment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#14

Post by ceejayoz »

chickenpotpie wrote: post #13
SkyBelow wrote: post #4

Could someone explain why this wouldn't fall under freedom of speech? Sounds like there were not government secrets nor did the expert have a security clearance that would have held him to a higher standard. If Tor researchers gave a presentation at a security conference on how to install Tor, knowing full well that some would use it to engage in the proliferation of CSAM, would that also not fall under free speech?

Same reason you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. There are limits to freedom of speech, especially when it interferes with national defense. Schenck v. United States is an interesting case where the supreme court ruled that passing out fliers to encourage resistance to the draft is not protected by the first amendment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

It’s Time to Stop Using the ‘Fire in a Crowded Theater’ Quote: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...

Three Generations of a Hackneyed Apologia for Censorship Are Enough: https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#15

Post by spamizbad »

Not surprised: it seems a common theme with crypto evangelists is the application of the blockchain to avoid sanctions. I don't think its deeply ideological (as in anti-America/Pro-NK) - it's more like they view US financial hegemony as a "competitor" to blockchain technology and a hinderance to global cryptocurrency adoption.

Why he would throw his life away like this seems silly. I don't see the point in taking payment for a presentation you could record and upload on youtube which can be readily viewed by North Korea's leadership.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#16

Post by unethical_ban »

You almost have to wonder if there is more we don't know. I can't imagine anyone person being able to fundamentally alter NK's understanding of Blockchain. Laugh at that country, but there must be a few doctorate level brains that can watch proxied-Youtube.

He knew what he was doing and he took a principled stand on sharing information with a very unsympathetic party. It would be like teaching mobsters how to clean an AK-47 when there is a specific law against it - sure, the law may sound bogus, but you broke it, and you aren't being exactly noble about it.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#17

Post by GauntletWizard »

meheleventyone wrote: post #9
SkyBelow wrote: post #4

Could someone explain why this wouldn't fall under freedom of speech? Sounds like there were not government secrets nor did the expert have a security clearance that would have held him to a higher standard. If Tor researchers gave a presentation at a security conference on how to install Tor, knowing full well that some would use it to engage in the proliferation of CSAM, would that also not fall under free speech?

> Could someone explain why this wouldn't fall under freedom of speech? North Korea is under international sanctions and part of that means you can't aid them. Explaining how to launder money and evade sanctions to a general audience is probably fine. Explaining how to launder money and evade sanctions to North Korea is against the law.

You can almost certainly get away with "If I were North Korea, here's how I would launder money" as an academic article. Presenting it in Pyongyang seems like a pretty bright and clear "Aiding and abetting enemies of the US"

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#18

Post by ricochet11 »

This is so sad, how does locking him up for 5 years really helps anyone? or keep anyone safer? He did something stupid maybe, but his work was exploring how digital systems can help bring peace to the world, and he thought a good place for that to happen is NK, so who doesn't agree with that? None of the information he presented was secret, it was all publicly available.

For comparison here is a company that actually facilitated NK building Nuclear Weapons, 145 violations of the law , they got fined $15k more than Virgil and had no jail time. https://www.complianceweek.com/regulatory-enforcement/td-ban...

What a stupid and harmful legal system.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#19

Post by chickenpotpie »

ceejayoz wrote: post #14
chickenpotpie wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reason you can't yell fire in a crowded theater. There are limits to freedom of speech, especially when it interferes with national defense. Schenck v. United States is an interesting case where the supreme court ruled that passing out fliers to encourage resistance to the draft is not protected by the first amendment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States

It’s Time to Stop Using the ‘Fire in a Crowded Theater’ Quote: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim... Three Generations of a Hackneyed Apologia for Censorship Are Enough: https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...

I read the Atlantic article, but I don't think they made a strong enough argument to justify retiring the quote. Regardless of the circumstances that it was first used, it's meaning is still very true. It is still illegal to yell fire in a crowded theater and there are many exceptions to the first amendment. An american citizen cannot verbally harass someone, they cannot share child pornography, and they cannot go around telling everyone how to make a nuclear bomb.

Re: US sentences crypto expert to 5 years after North Korea blockchain presentation

#20

Post by pen2l »

Did his PhD at Caltech under Christof Koch in computation and neural systems, was a super talented mathematician... and then he gets involved in crypto.

I remember conversations with friends only a few years ago in which we would lament how young brilliant minds were eventually going on to work on adtech, and we would sigh and hope that the tide would turn.

Boy, we were not prepared for this tide.

Anyway, the NYSD release gives some interesting details: (https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/manhattan-us-attorney-a...)

  GRIFFITH identified several DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference attendees who
  appeared to work for the North Korean government, and who, during his 
  presentation, asked GRIFFITH specific questions about blockchain and 
  cryptocurrency and prompted discussions on technical aspects of those technologies.

  After the DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference, GRIFFITH began formulating plans to 
  facilitate the exchange of cryptocurrency between the DPRK and South Korea, despite 
  knowing that assisting with such an exchange would violate sanctions against the 
  DPRK.  GRIFFITH also encouraged other U.S. citizens to travel to North Korea,
  including to attend the same DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference the following year.
Smart enough as he was, I'm sure he knew of the terrible human rights track record NK had. That he chose to start helping the NK government evade sanctions, I am not able to muster a lot of sympathy for the guy at this point.
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