Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not an appropriate comparison. You are talking about bad policies and political decisions, while Haidt is focusing on internal division and institutional erosion. The issue here is whether you will be free to see and declare the next war as a mistake, or whether the public space and political arena will be dominated by authoritarianism, fueled by the processes described in the article.
I think OP does bring up an important subject. The 00's set the stage for the 10's. The events they mentioned caused a huge lack of trust in our institutions - government, private, and media. The average American was a loser in the wars and in the economic crisis of 2008. The patriot act and related 9/11 fallout also set Americans up to accept authoritarianism in the name of security. We could not have been more ripe…
Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid
471–480 of 504 posts
Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid
#472Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a Republican narrative, not really backed up by any sound historical analysis. Whereas creation, nurture and development of wedge issues is a standard right wing tactic across the world. Be it love-jihad in India, miscegenation in USA, jewish hatred in nazi Germany or recognition of Ahmediyas as muslims in Pakistan. It incentivizes voters to vote on ideological lines while ignoring/ letting politicians/wealthy…
If these “wedge issues” are manufactured and inconsequential, I’m sure democrats would be happy to go along with the republican positions on abortion, etc., these issues so we can focus on the important economic issues, right? > Case in point- gun laws, abortions, gay marriage are simply not a focus of right wing parties in India. I said social and cultural issues are important to people—the specific social and cultu…
Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid
#473Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Abortion has been a great example for decades. Taking away millions of woman's right to choose what to do with their own bodies in order to save what are almost entirely insensate lumps of cells I used to believe this too because of America’s awful science education. It wasn’t until I went to the ultrasound appointments for my first kid that I realized how incorrect that was. A 13 week fetus, which under Roe can be…
>Sure, if you wave your hands and say that your side is obviously right about the issues at the heart of a political dispute, you can make any issue seem manufactured. You should go to India and tell the Hindus and the Muslims that they’re both wrong about their “imaginary friends” and that their dispute is a manufactured triviality. Take it from the child of an Ahmedi who left Pakistan in 1986. When _you’re_ the wed…
Muslim shops are being vandalized and burnt all over India https://twitter.com/meerfaisal01/status/1513541836756848644
Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid
#474Earlier quoted context omitted.
Issues trivial enough for your opponent to disarm by ceding them without society harming consequences make poor wedges. A maximally appropriate wedge is one in which you take a harmful extremist view and present it as righteous without dealing with the results of actually fully getting your way. Abortion has been a great example for decades. Taking away millions of woman's right to choose what to do with their own bo…
> Abortion has been a great example for decades. Taking away millions of woman's right to choose what to do with their own bodies in order to save what are almost entirely insensate lumps of cells I used to believe this too because of America’s awful science education. It wasn’t until I went to the ultrasound appointments for my first kid that I realized how incorrect that was. A 13 week fetus, which under Roe can be…
It actually doesn't say that most people believe abortion ought to be illegal after the first trimester. What it actually said is that 38% believe that it ought to be illegal in most cases. This is overwhelmingly the people who believe that we are violating the magical ghost that their god hath breathed into even a lump of cells. Also notably this is virtually the same demographic that literally believes the earth is 6000-10,000 years old.
Of the 61% who believe abortion should be legal 44% believe the first trimester ought to be the line. Another 12% think the second trimester ought to be the line and another 44% think birth ought to be the line.
There are two questions. Ought abortions happen outside extraordinary circumstances and where do we draw the line. If we have discerned that a woman has a right to an abortion it makes no sense to average or combine the people who think the line is at zero and the people who think the variable has a value and use that to set policy. Firstly because the average of undefined and an integer is undefined and secondly because that is a fucking terrible why to deal with something that actually has a scientific answer that being basing it on birth rendering it an independent person or brain development such that the fetus goes from having never been conscious in the first place to something more akin to sleep.
Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid
#475“He described the nihilism of the many protest movements of 2011 that organized mostly online and that, like Occupy Wall Street, demanded the destruction of existing institutions without offering an alternative vision of the future or an organization that could bring it about.“ Calling Occupy nihilistic is strikes me as blinkered, and shows the neoliberal bias of the author. Occupy is where the 99% vs. 1% lens arose,…
Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid
#476While I am a big fan of Jonathan Haidt, and have read several of his books, I can't help but feel that this is written from a point of view that is entirely too impressed with (if also afraid of) technology. Peter Turchin predicted escalating levels of polarization in the US, reaching a peak around 2020, without any need to look at social media. The level of political polarization now, while high, is less than the la…
I feel like I see a lot of HN/HN-adjacent (pg, his friends, etc) conversation about polarization and elite overproduction that totally misses the asymmetry between the left and the right. Like, sure, there are plenty of middle-to-upper-middle-class white liberals with “In This House We Believe” signs in their front yards. But while they may be culturally liberal, if you poll them on Medicare for All, wealth taxes, pu…
Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid
#477While I am a big fan of Jonathan Haidt, and have read several of his books, I can't help but feel that this is written from a point of view that is entirely too impressed with (if also afraid of) technology. Peter Turchin predicted escalating levels of polarization in the US, reaching a peak around 2020, without any need to look at social media. The level of political polarization now, while high, is less than the la…
> The level of political polarization now, while high, is less than the late 1850's In other words it could be worse, you could be in an actual full on civil war.
Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid
#478i feel like i'm out of touch. the premise is that most Americans don't like/agree with the political aspects of their social media: to which i wonder, why don't they disengage? even in 2022, it's not hard to find people who don't talk partisan politics. it's not hard to find people who value epistemics. the web-like portions of the internet make this easy . Google "rationalist community" and the first result is LessW…
It gets dragged in a lot of places whether you want it or not.
For example, I saw a discussion recently on a real estate forum where someone stated that US demographics show the population is about to tank and so real estate prices will crash when there are too many houses for the smaller population. Someone else pointed out the prediction wasn't compensating for illegal immigration and immediately the brigade went into action accusing them of being a republican.
Even on motorcycle forums with regard to Chinese-manufactured bike engines and whether you're supporting the CCP by buying one, etc. It feels like it's getting unavoidable.
Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid
#479Haidt makes an excellent observation about the mid-20th century unity being an aberration due to the technology of the time: > Gurri is no fan of elites or of centralized authority, but he notes a constructive feature of the pre-digital era: a single “mass audience,” all consuming the same content, as if they were all looking into the same gigantic mirror at the reflection of their own society. Something I think we o…
Here's an idea: the single-topic, short-lived political party. Imagine a political party created to achieve one focused accomplishment, and then literally dissolved once it's been achieved. The more bipartisan support the accomplishment has, the better. Say a political party whose primary focus is to get term limits for members of the US Congress, a topic with broad bipartisan support [1]. People of all political per…
Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid
#480Earlier quoted context omitted.
You did not answer - you listed my options and I was asking for the reaction of the collective. Because I know that functional illiteracy is becoming a serious problem, I'll do my best to help you: "How exactly are they going to limit my options to those, what are they going to do specifically?"
Specifically, the township would put a property tax lien on your property. Eventually, the liens would pile up and your property would have so many liens you'd have no value left in your house. Then the township would take you to court to enforce their right to collect the judgements. At that point, you'd most likely be forced to move out. The township would sell your home to recover the tax liens and judgements. A s…