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Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

politics.salon.com

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Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#131

Post by olefoo »

rgbrgb wrote: post #75
kgtm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about how easy it would be for an out-of-college, non-US person, with no social circle experimenting with such substances get hold of, say, LSD. Part of the non-legalization problem is that if forces you to go down dark alleys which are certainly not compatible with the all-is-good, geek experimentation philosophy. If forces potential users to associate with the hardcore underground, with all the risks that…

Probably you could just ask your kids, or ask around at a college campus, or google it, or check on craigslist (people sell weed on craigslist these days), or ask at a headshop. Also, I'm quite confident that someone you know, even in an extremely sober social circle would know someone who would now.

> people sell weed on craigslist these days

Very dumb people. That's almost sure to earn you a visit from the least harried law enforcement group in your local area.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#132

Post by codybrown »

saddino wrote: post #66
rwmj wrote: post #8

I've taken LSD and 'shrooms a few times, and while I can understand what Jobs is saying, I think he was wrong. I had mystical experiences where I thought I understood that the whole world was connected together, and I was connected to the world, and other deep insights. I think this was just brain-addled delusion, not any insight into how things really are. That said, I fully support these things being legal, and (fo…

I think you may be missing the forest for the trees. My personal insight from psychedelics was that what I perceived as "reality" was simply wetware converting signals from my senses into perception. When something changes that perception (sometimes dramatically, like patterns on solid objects moving fluidly behind my hands or gazing at shimmering geometric rainbows etched into the walls) one understands that reality…

"It's easier to imagine changing the world when the world is so easily changeable in your head."

Yes.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#133

Post by cynest »

jcromartie wrote: post #121
kgtm wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't go into details about why each solution you present is not optimal, because I have a better proposal. Make LSD and other drugs of similar effect legal. Have the government regulate the distribution. Put an exorbitant price tag on them and disallow buying-in-bulk. Make me sign that I am wholly responsible for what happens to me by using them (even though nothing adverse as lung cancer will, I'm sure). Give me…

Why an exorbitant price tag? That will just fuel the black market that is in turn fueling the drug wars (read: with bullets and machetes and thousands of dead people) in Central America. How about a reasonable price tag? Or how about blanket legalization of cultivation, possession, and use? I can get a tube of spores for "magic mushrooms" for about $10 and grow my own indefinitely . But for some reason this activity…

> I don't need a license to brew beer and drink it myself or give it away

In the US you do

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#134

Post by jcromartie »

cynest wrote: post #133
jcromartie wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why an exorbitant price tag? That will just fuel the black market that is in turn fueling the drug wars (read: with bullets and machetes and thousands of dead people) in Central America. How about a reasonable price tag? Or how about blanket legalization of cultivation, possession, and use? I can get a tube of spores for "magic mushrooms" for about $10 and grow my own indefinitely . But for some reason this activity…

> I don't need a license to brew beer and drink it myself or give it away In the US you do

Actually it's per-state and per-county. Where I live, there's nothing stopping anyone over 21 from brewing their own beer (up to some rather large amount).

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#135

Post by shareme »

melling wrote: post #6

I've never used illegal drugs, and I've never had a desire. However, the one problem we do have by keeping certain drugs illegal is that Americans are destroying countries, like Mexico, where a week doesn't by where a drug gang hasn't killed someone. Illegal drug money is used to finance so much corruption and killing, that there seems to be little value in keeping them illegal, especially considering that everyone w…

ahem per Mexican History.. before pot becoming illegal in the 1930s do you think the corruption in Mexico was less than it is now?

The answer is no..same amount of corruption..

If we are going to change drug laws it cannot be for the welfare of some other country but to benefit our own.

I think legalizing pot to same level alcohol is and having taxes applied to sale of pot would be step in the right direction.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#136

Post by rick888 »

dailyrorschach wrote: post #63
rick888 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I've seen people nearly talk about marijuana as if it is the destroyer of worlds, which I don't think any reputable scientist has possibly ever endorsed" Are you denying the negative effects drugs have on many people? Pot may not have many effects on physical health, but it certainly does on mental health. Many people I know that smoke pot have almost no ambition. Pot becomes almost like a second girlfriend. Everyth…

Your welcome to believe that it is bad for you and that you don't want to do it, but I disagree that that should translate to you saying other people can't do something. We could easily replace pot with any number of substances, even legal psychoactive drugs. There are plenty of alcoholics in this world, does that mean that if I can enjoy alcohol occasionally and responsibly I shouldn't be able to? Many anxiety patie…

I see the drug overlords have again down-modded me for not being a troll and merely stating my opinion on the matter.

"Your welcome to believe that it is bad for you and that you don't want to do it, but I disagree that that should translate to you saying other people can't do something."

I'm fine with it as long as users of these drugs have to pay higher medical fees (if we ever have government-run health care).

The MJ bill in CA that didn't pass also would have made it difficult for an employer to fire an employee that uses regularly. This isn't okay with me.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#137

Post by rick888 »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #69
rick888 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I've seen people nearly talk about marijuana as if it is the destroyer of worlds, which I don't think any reputable scientist has possibly ever endorsed" Are you denying the negative effects drugs have on many people? Pot may not have many effects on physical health, but it certainly does on mental health. Many people I know that smoke pot have almost no ambition. Pot becomes almost like a second girlfriend. Everyth…

It's not really fair of me to doubt people's anecdotes, but for ALL of the stoners I know, this has never been descriptive of them. Two of the biggest pot heads I know are starting a company and already have a dozen clients, and the others have 6 figure salaries waiting for them on the West coast.

"Two of the biggest pot heads I know are starting a company and already have a dozen clients, and the others have 6 figure salaries waiting for them on the West coast."

Again, why are people defending pot here like a second girlfriend?

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#138

Post by rick888 »

marquis wrote: post #54
rick888 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Illegal drug money is used to finance so much corruption and killing, that there seems to be little value in keeping them illegal, especially considering that everyone who wants to take drugs still does. If certain drugs do have harmful effects then at least the effects will be mostly limited to the people who take them." Mexico is already corrupt without the drugs. Making them legal will give the cartels even more…

>Making them legal will give the cartels even more power because they will now be able to legally sell drugs in the US. Does Anheuser-Busch engage in lethal turf warfare in the manner of Al Capone? Yes, I agree that the cartels would move into legal territory but quite frankly, as someone who spends a lot of time in Mexico, the country would be happy to see the terror gone, jobs created and the tax benefits reaped. R…

"Does Anheuser-Busch engage in lethal turf warfare in the manner of Al Capone? Yes, I agree that the cartels would move into legal territory but quite frankly, as someone who spends a lot of time in Mexico, the country would be happy to see the terror gone, jobs created and the tax benefits reaped."

It won't happen. Mexico's entire system is completely corrupt. Legalizing drugs won't fix the problem.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#139

Post by rick888 »

evilduck wrote: post #79
rick888 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Illegal drug money is used to finance so much corruption and killing, that there seems to be little value in keeping them illegal, especially considering that everyone who wants to take drugs still does. If certain drugs do have harmful effects then at least the effects will be mostly limited to the people who take them." Mexico is already corrupt without the drugs. Making them legal will give the cartels even more…

Many people want government-run health care in the US. Legalizing illegal drugs will add to the already large amount of addicts. Do we really want more addicts in our hospitals? I really don't see this as the most likely scenario. Why would it follow that legalization of a drug would lead to more addicts? Cigarettes are legal and addictive and I don't smoke them. Heroin and meth could be legal and I wouldn't do those…

"I really don't see this as the most likely scenario. Why would it follow that legalization of a drug would lead to more addicts? Cigarettes are legal and addictive and I don't smoke them"

Many people do because they are easily available in pretty much any 7-11 and gas station.

"Legal doesn't imply uncontrolled and unfettered access by all"

Then there will still be a black market and it still won't solve the issue at hand.

" the people who want to experiment with them already do so regardless of legality, health effects or cost"

Many people don't experiment because they don't know where to get them. Legalizing them also implies that they are okay (if it's legal..it has to be okay..right?)

"Sin/vice taxes already fund dozens of other things besides adult health care costs, if anything I would expect them to be exploited as a revenue generating machine that politicians could gouge for cash since it's so easy to demonize"

I would just rather not have the increase strain on our already over-taxes medical system.

Everyone that's pro-drug wants the government out of their lives, yet they are fine with increased taxes and regulations to support more and more social programs. Government taxation and regulation = control.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#140

Post by MatthewPhillips »

rick888 wrote: post #139
evilduck wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people want government-run health care in the US. Legalizing illegal drugs will add to the already large amount of addicts. Do we really want more addicts in our hospitals? I really don't see this as the most likely scenario. Why would it follow that legalization of a drug would lead to more addicts? Cigarettes are legal and addictive and I don't smoke them. Heroin and meth could be legal and I wouldn't do those…

"I really don't see this as the most likely scenario. Why would it follow that legalization of a drug would lead to more addicts? Cigarettes are legal and addictive and I don't smoke them" Many people do because they are easily available in pretty much any 7-11 and gas station. "Legal doesn't imply uncontrolled and unfettered access by all" Then there will still be a black market and it still won't solve the issue at…

> Everyone that's pro-drug wants the government out of their lives, yet they are fine with increased taxes and regulations to support more and more social programs.

Everyone? Well that's convenient. That people who agree on one issue would all also agree on several other unrelated issues. Very convenient indeed.

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