Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid • Hacker News Board

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#441

Post by grumple » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:05 PM UTC

spupe wrote: post #298

tharne wrote: post #50

I'd say the first 10 years of the 21st century were a hell of a lot stupider. We blew a budget surplus on tax cuts for the wealthy. We started two wars that lasted the better part of 20 years, one of which was waged against a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11. Oh, and we didn't win either of them. We completely ignored the rise of China and any threat it posed, assuming all the while they'd become g…

That's not an appropriate comparison. You are talking about bad policies and political decisions, while Haidt is focusing on internal division and institutional erosion. The issue here is whether you will be free to see and declare the next war as a mistake, or whether the public space and political arena will be dominated by authoritarianism, fueled by the processes described in the article.

I think OP does bring up an important subject. The 00's set the stage for the 10's. The events they mentioned caused a huge lack of trust in our institutions - government, private, and media. The average American was a loser in the wars and in the economic crisis of 2008. The patriot act and related 9/11 fallout also set Americans up to accept authoritarianism in the name of security. We could not have been more ripe for the disruptive forces of the past decade.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#442

Post by freeone3000 » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:08 PM UTC

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #365

freeone3000 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From 1956? I'll take the automobile, please.

I should've specified whether it was 1956 dollars or 2022 dollars. "Real" means inflation-adjusted. I was thinking of 2022 dollars, so you can't have the automobile. Were we doing it the other way around, $1000 1956 dollars is only $10,700 2022 dollars. You might be able to get a car for $1k in 1956, but it's going to be strictly worse than a 2022 car--the two things aren't comparable. Which is a large part of my poi…

Then I'll take three sets of skirts and dresses (total $30), made of cotton and available in size 16(!) (not a plus size, just, in the regular size lineup!). I'll take a grocery shopping trip, which not only will cost me less than $10 but all of the food will be local and in-season. And I'll take a month of rent in Montreal ($60) to round it out.

If you prefer, I could have blown it all on a single college course, but that seems to belie the idea of a basket. :P

The declining prices are primarily in durable consumer goods, fuel energy, and consumer electronics. Food, healthcare, education, and rent (the things you need to live) have far outpaced "inflation" -- and this is more relevant to the average person because you don't buy a TV every year, but surely you buy bread every week.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#443

Post by xkbarkar » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:34 PM UTC

1121redblackgo wrote: post #46

This thread is the prototypical example of what Haidt is talking about. I have no interest in taking part in this comments section other than to make this observation.

Well HN is part of the problem isnt it? This platform may be one of few that allows difference of opinions in the threads but it it still very much just a subset of reddit users. With the same tendency to agree with anything progressive and attack all other points of view.

Post covid era societal destruction, aka actually starting to face the devastating consequences of the extreme C19 responses, has softened a whole lot of progressives around me at least. And its easy to tell from the dominishing support of extremeist progressive commentary in HN for the past 6 months or so.

That being said I adore HN. Fun random articles.

Comments sections seem to leak into reddit territory but maybe that will resolve itself.

HN is not ad much fun for those seeking outrage as reddit.

I liked the article. He is progressive but at least he had the guts to timidly criticize his own tribe for the current state of the political divise.

Good step in the right direction.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#444

Post by tstrimple » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

HigherPlain wrote: post #322

TomSwirly wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything the author identifies applies equally to rhetoric from the lef Looking from the outside (Europe), I'm sorry, but I just don't see this at all. A big example: Republicans have repeatedly claimed for over a decade now that the Democrats run an international child sex trafficking network I am in no way a fan of Hillary Clinton, but the right has spent almost forty years systematically lying about her, claim…

"Republicans have repeatedly claimed for over a decade now that the Democrats run an international child sex trafficking network" You're referring to Qanon type people? They are fringe extremists. Why would you group all republicans in with them? Compare to r/politics section of Reddit, which is a much more mainstream group of people. On that website there are regularly top-voted comments with thousands of "likes" sa…

> They are fringe extremists.

Roughly 1/3rd of Republicans believe QAnon nonsense. They are actively electing QAnon representatives like MTG and Boebert. The wife of a Supreme Court Justice is a QAnon fanatic.

The "fringe extremists" are taking over the Republican party and aren't all that fringe anymore.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/05/27/nearly-30-...

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#445

Post by pas » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:13 PM UTC

maxfurman wrote: post #372

bko wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occupy failed because it didn't have any clear asks or metrics to track. They were against the bailouts. Did they vote anyone out of office? Did the re-election rate of 90% budge? Are there "Occupy Democrats" like there were "Tea Party Republicans"? But most importantly, did they stop future bailouts? The original uproar about the 2008 bailouts (TARP) was originally authorized to spend $700 billion, of which they spe…

Occupy failed because the organizers were systematically jailed on the eve of the major protests, preventing them from coordinating and establishing goals like the ones you are looking for.

They were out days later, no?

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#446

Post by landemva » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:18 PM UTC

Brybry wrote: post #281

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll have to forgive me. I live in a small population state (NM). I trust my local politicians far less than I trust the 3 or 4 we send to DC. When I lived in a larger population state (PA) the situation wasn't much different. The distrust of large national institutions is, IMO, a result of more than a century (or two!) worth of campaigning by the capital class to try to limit the belief in the virtues of the feder…

I have to agree. While I do think for most government local institutions are better... the federal government has done more for freedom and prevention of abuse than my state certainly has. Living in the south it's very apparent that a weak federal government was a bad thing. Civil rights have to be mandated top down, history is the proof. And I believe there is still sufficient party interest and government design to…

' ... federal government has done more for freedom and prevention of abuse than my state certainly has. '

Maybe reframe that to be federal constitution and courts.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#447

Post by pas » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:24 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #343

avidphantasm wrote: post #332

“He described the nihilism of the many protest movements of 2011 that organized mostly online and that, like Occupy Wall Street, demanded the destruction of existing institutions without offering an alternative vision of the future or an organization that could bring it about.“ Calling Occupy nihilistic is strikes me as blinkered, and shows the neoliberal bias of the author. Occupy is where the 99% vs. 1% lens arose,…

Occupy failed because it didn't have any clear asks or metrics to track. They were against the bailouts. Did they vote anyone out of office? Did the re-election rate of 90% budge? Are there "Occupy Democrats" like there were "Tea Party Republicans"? But most importantly, did they stop future bailouts? The original uproar about the 2008 bailouts (TARP) was originally authorized to spend $700 billion, of which they spe…

It's not giving money to banks. Central banks manage the money supply. This of course can help banks make more loans, but banks make loans even if the money supply is tight.

https://fullstackeconomics.com/easy-money-is-probably-good-f...

https://fullstackeconomics.com/the-2000s-housing-bubble-was-...

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#448

Post by da39a3ee » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:30 PM UTC

da39a3ee wrote: post #387

suction wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak for Germany, but Social media here still is much, much less widely adopted than in the US, because sharing one's life with strangers is culturally not as well regarded as it is in the US. This also applied before social media - telling one's life story to strangers was just not done. Now, this is changing for younger generations, but even they are still not nearly as willing to share as their America…

Has Germany seen the same rise in young people adopting strongly entrenched positions on racial identity politics and not tolerating a diversity of opinion? E.g are undergraduates trying to ban speakers they disagree with? Can a person under the age of 40 voice agreement with a traditional feminist like JK Rowling without being socially and professionally ostracized?

It's not appropriate to downvote this. It was simply a question. A good-faith, politely-made, relevant, question. Please answer it or otherwise contribute substantively if you wish to participate in the subthread.

(Don't bother telling me it's against site guidelines to question downvotes; I know that. Just downvote this if you feel the need. The reason I am breaking the site guidelines in this instance is that I suspect that the fact that the only response to my question is downvotes is a symptom of exactly the problem being discussed in TFA.)

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#449

Post by HWR_14 » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:37 PM UTC

octoberfranklin wrote: post #295

sweetbitter wrote: post #48

> Banks and other industries have “know your customer” rules so that they can’t do business with anonymous clients laundering money from criminal enterprises. Large social-media platforms should be required to do the same. That does not mean users would have to post under their real names; they could still use a pseudonym. It just means that before a platform spreads your words to millions of people, it has an obliga…

> Just outlaw or intensely regulate these massive, centralized You can even do this with mere taxation rather than needing the full power of regulation. Graduated corporate income tax. Instant diseconomy of scale. That's a good thing.

Except it's easy to break a corporation into many constituent parts. That's assuming there are any US based profits to tax. Most companies of a certain scale only make money in Ireland, the Netherlands and the Caymans.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#450

Post by s1artibartfast » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 8:22 PM UTC

luciusdomitius wrote: post #333

TuringNYC wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> And what do you do if someone disagrees with the crowd? How do you force him without coercieon? (hint those two words are synonyms). I think as the parent poster was saying, this is possible with smaller groups. I think the best example would be townships in the US. Different townships decide on the level of tax and investing (especially into school systems.) Then, individuals self-select themselves into groups by…

Alright. It is a township then. I refuse to go by the collective will. What happens next if violence is not an option and private property is respected?

Depending on the scenario, potentially nothing. There are certainly times and topics where people can break from the collective, with no hard feelings or repercussions on either side.

In rural areas, this is typically how it works. Laws are more of suggestions, and unless you are causing a big problem for someone you are likely to be left alone.