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Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

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Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#231

Post by monocasa »

nukemaster wrote: post #142
dundarious wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a major resentment people have when they see these "moral stands" by the US, is that in its literal present day actions, neither US nor China "stand up against oppression in general not just when you can benefit", but also, China does not rhetorically claim to do so -- the US does make that false claim. The easy present day case to back up this claim that the US does not "stand up against oppression..." is Ye…

But we do try to make things right for US citizens (and often foreigners) inside our own borders. What happens inside your borders is way more important than outside. I don't think what we've done in the middle east is remotely good but it's substantially different.

ICE has been accused of performing large numbers of forced sterilizations within camps in US borders.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/immigration-customs-...

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#232

Post by blueflow »

tablespoon wrote: post #230
blueflow wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.

>>> Go fix your own country first before pointing at others. >> Should the US have followed your advice during WWII? After all, slavery was quite a sin that hasn't yet been fully atoned for, and even less so in the 40s. > Yes. Even if that meant the Nazis won or achieved a negotiated peace that left them in power (e.g. no Nuremberg trials, no hangings)?

The allied victory was paid in soviet blood. The axis had lost before the first US soldier stepped foot on European soil.

Fuck off with your US white liberal savior complex.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#233

Post by golergka »

grapeskin wrote: post #139
golergka wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have there been at least one verified report about american comment far, BTW? There's been dozens about Russian and Chinese over the last 15 years.

There has, yes. Straight from the Senate. [1] There's a 300 million dollar budget to counter "chinese influence" and "promote transparency." Where does that money go? Who knows. But traditionally this goes to paying for media narratives, and in the 21st century, online comments are definitely a good bang for your buck. And star witnesses are also a good way to counter the influence of a country and demand transparenc…

This money can go to a lot of different activities, and I don't see any reason to believe that it's actually about comment farms and not "white-hat" PR.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#234

Post by nukemaster »

monocasa wrote: post #231
nukemaster wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we do try to make things right for US citizens (and often foreigners) inside our own borders. What happens inside your borders is way more important than outside. I don't think what we've done in the middle east is remotely good but it's substantially different.

ICE has been accused of performing large numbers of forced sterilizations within camps in US borders. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/immigration-customs-...

Yes, that's not incompatible with what I said.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#235

Post by monocasa »

nukemaster wrote: post #234
monocasa wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE has been accused of performing large numbers of forced sterilizations within camps in US borders. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/immigration-customs-...

Yes, that's not incompatible with what I said.

What part of forcing sterilizations in camps in our borders is 'making things right for foreigners'?

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#236

Post by tablespoon »

blueflow wrote: post #232
tablespoon wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Go fix your own country first before pointing at others. >> Should the US have followed your advice during WWII? After all, slavery was quite a sin that hasn't yet been fully atoned for, and even less so in the 40s. > Yes. Even if that meant the Nazis won or achieved a negotiated peace that left them in power (e.g. no Nuremberg trials, no hangings)?

The allied victory was paid in soviet blood. The axis had lost before the first US soldier stepped foot on European soil. Fuck off with your US white liberal savior complex.

> The allied victory was paid in soviet blood. The axis had lost before the first US soldier stepped foot on European soil.

It's quite possible that things might have been different if the Nazis were secure on their Western front or the Soviets hadn't received American aid (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#US_deliveries_to_th...).

> Fuck off with your US white liberal savior complex.

Really?

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#237

Post by lenkite »

BobbyJo wrote: post #216
lenkite wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Xinjiang, people are put in camps because of their religion and ethnicity, that's why millions are locked up. Well, it's not by Religion. If so, China would have ~45 million muslims permanently imprisoned. Contrary to popular belief, the folks in Xinjiang don't make up the majority of Muslims in China. Those would be the Hui who make up ~3% of the population just by themselves. It is indeed deeply distressing th…

Weird how the parts of the world with the least press and human rights are the most against talking about Xinjiang. Probably just a coincidence tho.

Weird how the nation with the most propaganda, maximum incarcerated and most wars/bombings in the modern era acts holier-than-thou all the time.

Probably just a coincidence tho.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#238

Post by tablespoon »

monocasa wrote: post #231
nukemaster wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we do try to make things right for US citizens (and often foreigners) inside our own borders. What happens inside your borders is way more important than outside. I don't think what we've done in the middle east is remotely good but it's substantially different.

ICE has been accused of performing large numbers of forced sterilizations within camps in US borders. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/immigration-customs-...

> ICE has been accused of performing large numbers of forced sterilizations within camps in US borders.

> https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/15/politics/immigration-customs-...

The hysterectomies weren't US or ICE policy, they were the result of poor oversight of one contract doctor who was committing malpractice.

https://theintercept.com/2021/05/20/ice-irwin-hysterectomies...

> ICE stopped sending immigrant women to Amin after the allegations of nonconsensual and unnecessary procedures came to light. The FBI is currently investigating Amin for a series of unnecessary, rough, or abusive procedures, according to a report in Prism by Tina Vásquez earlier this month.

Amin is the doctor.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#239

Post by nukemaster »

monocasa wrote: post #235
nukemaster wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's not incompatible with what I said.

What part of forcing sterilizations in camps in our borders is 'making things right for foreigners'?

Often != always.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#240

Post by Karunamon »

tablespoon wrote: post #197
DigitalSea wrote: post #65

Quoted post unavailable.

> The CCP bots are in full force in the comments on this post. Whoa. I know what you mean, but it's not bots. It's not even the real 50 cent party would waste it's time with HN. Whatever activity they have in English-language social networks is probably directed at places where there's more bang for the buck. like Twitter or Reddit.

I'm not so sure. Considering even niche cesspools Kiwi Farms have (laughably transparent) CCP propagandists, it's not a stretch to think a place like HN would either.

I think it's safer to assume bad faith on the part of anyone deflecting or trying to change the subject with whataboutist tactics (if not because they are literally paid propagandists, because this tactic is never conducive to discussion) and go from there.

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