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Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

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Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#221

Post by blueflow »

IncRnd wrote: post #202
blueflow wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp#... > U.S. control of Guantánamo Bay came about through the end of the Spanish-American war and the Platt Amendment. This amendment was initiated in 1903 and outlined seven conditions for the U.S. withdrawal from Cuba. The United States intervened at the end of the Spanish-American War, taking credit for Cuban independence from Spain. The Platt Am…

There was another lease, which was perpetual, signed with Cuba after that. See the link I posted. [1] "A 1934 treaty reaffirming the lease granted Cuba and her trading partners free access through the Bay, modified the lease payment from $2,000 in gold coins per year to the 1934 equivalent value of $4,085 U.S. dollars, and added a requirement that termination of the lease requires the consent of both the U.S. and Cub…

Can you point to some less biased source than the US military?

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#222

Post by blueflow »

tablespoon wrote: post #220
blueflow wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you want to ally with a country like that? Same about bombing of Korea and Vietnam. Why should anyone want to be allied with the US? > where civilians are being indiscriminately shelled North Korea. You are quick to point fingers, fix your own country first.

> Same about bombing of Korea and Vietnam. Why should anyone want to be allied with the US? I don't know, maybe ask some South Koreans and find out?

Go fix your own country first before pointing at others.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#223

Post by tablespoon »

blueflow wrote: post #222
tablespoon wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same about bombing of Korea and Vietnam. Why should anyone want to be allied with the US? I don't know, maybe ask some South Koreans and find out?

Go fix your own country first before pointing at others.

> Go fix your own country first before pointing at others.

I'm sure the Uyghurs would appreciate that.

Should the US have followed your advice during WWII? After all, slavery was quite a sin that hasn't yet been fully atoned for, and even less so in the 40s.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#224

Post by IncRnd »

blueflow wrote: post #221
IncRnd wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was another lease, which was perpetual, signed with Cuba after that. See the link I posted. [1] "A 1934 treaty reaffirming the lease granted Cuba and her trading partners free access through the Bay, modified the lease payment from $2,000 in gold coins per year to the 1934 equivalent value of $4,085 U.S. dollars, and added a requirement that termination of the lease requires the consent of both the U.S. and Cub…

Can you point to some less biased source than the US military?

> Can you point to some less biased source than the US military?

Yes. I called the 1934 document a lease, but it was actually a treaty that also included a modified form of the earlier lease's provisions.

  In 1934, a new Cuban-American Treaty of Relations,
  reaffirming the lease, granted Cuba and its trading
  partners free access through the bay, modified the lease
  payment from $2,000 in U.S. gold coins per year to the
  1934 equivalent value of $4,085 in U.S. dollars,
  and made the lease permanent unless both governments
  agreed to break it, or until the U.S. abandoned the base
  property. [1]

  United States - Cuban Agreements and Treaty of 1934 [2]

  Cuban–American Treaty of Relations (1934)
  Yale Law School, Lillian Goldman Law Library [3]

  Cuban–American Treaty of Relations (1934) [4]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guant%C3%A1namo_Bay

[2] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_-_Cuban_Agreeme...

[3] https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/dip_cuba001.asp

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban%E2%80%93American_Treaty_...

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#225

Post by blueflow »

tablespoon wrote: post #223
blueflow wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go fix your own country first before pointing at others.

> Go fix your own country first before pointing at others. I'm sure the Uyghurs would appreciate that. Should the US have followed your advice during WWII? After all, slavery was quite a sin that hasn't yet been fully atoned for, and even less so in the 40s.

Yes.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#227

Post by lobocinza »

It spokes a lot when you see that nearly all those defending the CCP are in fact criticizing other countries as CCP tyranny is undeniable and indefensible. But human rights violation isn't a competition, past and existing mistakes don't justify scaling up evil.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#228

Post by clucas »

trasz wrote: post #183
joshuahedlund wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does the US today recognize the Japanese internment as a moral crime? Yes. Not only is it recognized as a moral crime, but the US government passed a law to give restitution to interned people. Does that clean the slate? No. Does that make it ok? No, of course not. The point is not that the US is perfect or even good. The point is that the US system allows open discussion, criticism, protest, legislating, etc. It h…

The point is that you forget all the inconvenient facts - from American national guard murdering students in broad daylight, without any kind of punishment afterwards, to secret military kangaroo courts - and build your arguments on plain ignorance ("China has none of that").

It's silly to bring up Kent State in a discussion comparing openness to criticism between the US and China. Kent State is well documented, it's taught in school. Tiananmen Square (government troops murdering protesting students) is actively supressed in China.

Yes, the US has done bad things. And some of those bad things have been forgotten. But if you want to find out about them... the government is not going to prevent you from doing so. China is much worse in that regard.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#229

Post by okl »

duairc wrote: post #184
okl wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese government saying that US is being hypocrite because they did so and so in Iraq and whatever happened after 9/11 from abuses. That is an argument against abuse, not in favor. What are their arguments to support their actions?

It's a completely fair question to ask what is the Chinese justification. I found this documentary[1] by CGTN about the recent history of extremism and terrorist attacks in Xinjiang to be useful in outlining some of the context for this. These terrorist attacks were a real problem and have resulted in the deaths of over 1000 civilians (including Uyghurs). China's argument is basically their re-education "camps" are a…

I am not saying that it is the case, but let's assume for a moment that China is "re-educating" the Uyghurs to help them "find decent jobs that could provide for them and their families" and so on. Do you think it is acceptable to force someone to undergo "re-education" against their will?

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#230

Post by tablespoon »

blueflow wrote: post #225
tablespoon wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Go fix your own country first before pointing at others. I'm sure the Uyghurs would appreciate that. Should the US have followed your advice during WWII? After all, slavery was quite a sin that hasn't yet been fully atoned for, and even less so in the 40s.

Yes.

>>> Go fix your own country first before pointing at others.

>> Should the US have followed your advice during WWII? After all, slavery was quite a sin that hasn't yet been fully atoned for, and even less so in the 40s.

> Yes.

Even if that meant the Nazis won or achieved a negotiated peace that left them in power (e.g. no Nuremberg trials, no hangings)?

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