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Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

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Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#201

Post by StellarTabi »

NmAmDa wrote: post #99
okl wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese government saying that US is being hypocrite because they did so and so in Iraq and whatever happened after 9/11 from abuses. That is an argument against abuse, not in favor. What are their arguments to support their actions?

Chinese government (propaganda) is usually deploying this logic to suppress the discussion about their actions. It is a wide spread tactic that we see everyday. It is not like china is ever interested in helping people in Iraq, Afghanistan.. they could just stop doing the same (if not worse) as a good well gesture.

Fun facts about me, I'm not Chinese or paid by the Chinese government. I don't want to see my friends or our collective kids go off on a stupid war with China or another war in the middle east. We remember the WMDs lie, we remember decades of wage stagnation, we remember the decades of politicians low-balling us on healthcare reform/student loan forgiveness/nuclear power plants/other green energy. We know how much Iran/Afghanistan cost. We know who, for decades, sent all our jobs to China. It wasn't China. Want us to give half a shit about putting Xi in jail? Put Bush and Cheney (random names from a long list) in jail first. We can't afford any more wars. We're tired of endless do nothing politicians and constantly being gaslit.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#202

Post by IncRnd »

blueflow wrote: post #175
IncRnd wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you believe to be incorrect in what I quoted?

Quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp#... > U.S. control of Guantánamo Bay came about through the end of the Spanish-American war and the Platt Amendment. This amendment was initiated in 1903 and outlined seven conditions for the U.S. withdrawal from Cuba. The United States intervened at the end of the Spanish-American War, taking credit for Cuban independence from Spain. The Platt Am…

There was another lease, which was perpetual, signed with Cuba after that. See the link I posted. [1]

"A 1934 treaty reaffirming the lease granted Cuba and her trading partners free access through the Bay, modified the lease payment from $2,000 in gold coins per year to the 1934 equivalent value of $4,085 U.S. dollars, and added a requirement that termination of the lease requires the consent of both the U.S. and Cuban governments, or the U.S. abandonment of the base property."

[1] https://www.cnic.navy.mil/regions/cnrse/installations/ns_gua...

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#203

Post by cabirum »

adventured wrote: post #155
cabirum wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if the wedding party incident was a single, isolated case. True, the scale of destruction in Iraq, Afganistan and dozen other countries is nothing like Ukraine military shelled and shot their own civilians then staged a photo-op.

> True, the scale of destruction in Iraq, Afganistan and dozen other countries is nothing like Ukraine military shelled and shot their own civilians then staged a photo-op. Now we know what you are. I reference the on-going vast war crimes of Russia in Ukraine, and you talk about it being a self-inflicted, pretend photo-op. The scale of destruction in Afghanistan? This is how I know you're flailing. The US spent an e…

"What" you are, right.

> US spent an epic amount of money attempting to build in Afghanistan

I wonder where all this money end up, then.

It really shows how the US failed in the Afganistan -- when the Afgan people prefer the Taliban over US occupation.

Btw, did you know Taliban banned poppy cultivation and opium production promptly after the US evac? Why did drug trade flourished under the US rule? (dont bother, I know the "approved" answer is that there was nothing else for the population to do)

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#204

Post by dragonwriter »

joshuahedlund wrote: post #200
trasz wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that you forget all the inconvenient facts - from American national guard murdering students in broad daylight, without any kind of punishment afterwards, to secret military kangaroo courts - and build your arguments on plain ignorance ("China has none of that").

In the US, we can acknowledge those "inconvenient facts", freely discuss them, educate people about them, push for accountability for those who did them and to change policies so that they do not happen again.

And then, quite often, the police at various levels of government infiltrate the groups seeking accountability, engage in provocations to discredit them publicly and frame them for unrelated crimes for which they are prosecuted and punished, and actively coordinate with and/or passively use non-enforcement to enable opposed non-police groups to carry out violence against their members. (Of course, we can then acknowledge those inconvenient facts, educate people about them, and push for accountability, if we are willing to start the cycle over again.)

Is the US government less effectively repressive of dissent than the PRC? Sure. But it still does tend to violently repress dissent, especially when that is about conduct of policing or war.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#205

Post by seniorivn »

incomingpain wrote: post #199

The thing that confuses me is that China's muslim neighbours(ish) like Saudis, Pakistan or Kazakhstan support China in what they are doing. There is greater incentive for those 3 countries to care what China is doing to fellow Muslims and they don't oppose it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps

why would they care? they would do the same thing themselves if they could.

Dictators dig dictators, it's that simple

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#206

Post by tablespoon »

blueflow wrote: post #133
lr4444lr wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I didn't pick "70" randomly.

Quoted post unavailable.

>> Absolutely. I didn't pick "70" randomly.

> ... prick move.

No it isn't.

Also, aren't you German (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31001842)? Would you agree that the lesson of Nazi Germany is Germans have no grounds to criticize any human rights abuses anywhere in the world ever again?

Why are you criticizing the US for human rights abuses? Aren't you a hypocrite?

Shouldn't we be talking about the Holocaust, right now? After all, what China's doing here pales in comparison to that atrocity. They're only imprisoning one million, while Germany murdered six million.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#207

Post by blueflow »

tablespoon wrote: post #206
blueflow wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

>> Absolutely. I didn't pick "70" randomly. > ... prick move. No it isn't. Also, aren't you German ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31001842 )? Would you agree that the lesson of Nazi Germany is Germans have no grounds to criticize any human rights abuses anywhere in the world ever again? Why are you criticizing the US for human rights abuses? Aren't you a hypocrite? Shouldn't we be talking about the Holocaust,…

Thats fine, where is your Nürnberg Trials equivalent? Which of your politicians have been hanged or gone to jail?

Worse, why should we accept Nürnberg as right and just, when the US continuously gets away with their crimes?

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#208

Post by sudosysgen »

incomingpain wrote: post #199

The thing that confuses me is that China's muslim neighbours(ish) like Saudis, Pakistan or Kazakhstan support China in what they are doing. There is greater incentive for those 3 countries to care what China is doing to fellow Muslims and they don't oppose it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps

Of course they support it. From their point of view, China is showing them how to deal with domestic separatist religious movements. All they need is for the Chinese to point to the Hui Muslims and they will be more than fine with it - they may even have endorse it.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#209

Post by sudosysgen »

wickedsickeune wrote: post #153
naoqj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s normal to ask questions: if nothing has ever happened to the US for similar abuses, why should something happen to any other countries?

I wonder why you would think that it's normal. If something is unjust it should be prosecuted, regardless of the past. There will always be criminals who get away with crimes, this doesn't mean that we should give up.

It's perfectly reasonable. If only some people are allowed to commit crimes, you're not punishing crimes, you're just punishing an underclass. Justice must be blind, or it's just tribalism.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#210

Post by ospider »

VictorPath wrote: post #94
DigitalSea wrote: post #65

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

You know what, I'm a native Chinese living in Beijing now. On some Chinese websites, such as Zhihu, the Chinese version of Quora, I saw a lot of people calling others names. Those who support Russia call the other ones American spies or Taiwan spies, those who support Ukraine call the opposites "yellow Russians".

I was thinking that people on Hacker News would be a little more reasonable, since it's "hacker" news. Yet, I see you are calling each other "Communist bots" and "CIA bots"... What a day.

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