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Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

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Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#41

Post by sofixa »

treebot wrote: post #30
mlindner wrote: post #14

I do wonder who pays to have all these comments put on hacker news. This happens a lot on Russia-related threads as well. Or is it just some nationality who learned incorrect history. On the Russia-related threads I would've put it to people from India as there's a big tech group there and they speak English and their country is cozy with Russia, but they wouldn't be defending China.

Hacker news is just not that pro west. I actually find it quite refreshing.

Since when does it take a pro-Western stance to condemn a war, terrible atrocities and genocides? What, non-Westerners lack a moral compass or compassion?

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#42

Post by lr4444lr »

ATsch wrote: post #20
plouffy wrote: post #8

Holly molly, the whatsaboutism in these comments.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't recall any US prison in the last 70+ years where people on the order of a million people, largely from a single region or ethnicity, were imprisoned on suspicion of mere affiliation. Every country probably has a signature few cases of prosecution that may provoke our indignation. That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#43

Post by sofixa »

propagandist wrote: post #23
mlindner wrote: post #14

I do wonder who pays to have all these comments put on hacker news. This happens a lot on Russia-related threads as well. Or is it just some nationality who learned incorrect history. On the Russia-related threads I would've put it to people from India as there's a big tech group there and they speak English and their country is cozy with Russia, but they wouldn't be defending China.

May I ask who paid for your comment? Why do you automatically assume that there's an organized campaign when the viewpoint disagrees with your own? [Removed. Thank you commented below for the reminder to keep my background out of it] I have watched the democracy, WMD, and human rights theatrics deployed before. There are always people saying "let's be a little skeptical" and they are always called treasonous and unpa…

So you think that one's crimes excuse another's genocide? Weird take.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#44

Post by BobbyJo »

lenkite wrote: post #32
BobbyJo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US' own actions show that their supposed concern about the Xinjiang prisoners is wholly disingenuous point scoring. How do you feel about Xinjiang?

Terrible. But I felt terrible about Guantanamo Bay too. Still open by the way.

Do you think the camps in Xinjiang are as bad, or worse than Guantanamo?

I think they are worse because:

1) You are put there for your ethnicity and religion, (no suspected crimes are needed for detainment), despite being a Chinese citizen.

2) Freedom of press in the US means we found out bad things were happening in Guantanamo, and the prison has since been mostly wound down.

I think Guantanamo is good example of why the US's interest in Xinjiang is not disingenuous. We felt the same about Guantanamo as we do about Xinjiang: it's bad.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#45

Post by vachina »

puszczyk wrote: post #35
propagandist wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a had a penny every time ... There needs to be a better response to pointing out hypocrisy. If you care about China's abuses but not ours and our allies, you do not have the moral high ground, and morality is a political tool to you.

Have you tired to raise specific US abuses here on HN? What was the response?

You get your account and IP address shadowbanned.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#47

Post by fxtentacle »

mlindner wrote: post #14

I do wonder who pays to have all these comments put on hacker news. This happens a lot on Russia-related threads as well. Or is it just some nationality who learned incorrect history. On the Russia-related threads I would've put it to people from India as there's a big tech group there and they speak English and their country is cozy with Russia, but they wouldn't be defending China.

We recently had a discussion on good-faith communication here on HN.

In my opinion, it's perfectly OK for commenters to compare issues in Russia or China with issues in Europe or the US. And I can also relate that people in the US have a stronger opinion on fixing US issues than on fixing issues in China. If someone writes: "Let's fix discrimination close to where I live first!", that is not necessarily a bad thing or trying to distract or whataboutism. They are merely using this related topic to point out their own priorities.

I believe we should give them the benefit of doubt, especially if they mention real issues, and not just made up stuff. And in my opinion, faith-, color- or gender-based discrimination can sadly still be an issue in the west, too.

Also there's the issue of reciprocity: We wouldn't want China to intervene in the US. That makes it fair to ask why the US should be allowed to intervene in China / Russia. "We're the good guys" tends to be a lot more messy in practice.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#48

Post by blueflow »

mlindner wrote: post #14

I do wonder who pays to have all these comments put on hacker news. This happens a lot on Russia-related threads as well. Or is it just some nationality who learned incorrect history. On the Russia-related threads I would've put it to people from India as there's a big tech group there and they speak English and their country is cozy with Russia, but they wouldn't be defending China.

I'm from Germany, and i don't feel like the US is seeing itself as "equal" as to other countries. The US is one of the most militarily aggressive states, just within my lifetime, they invaded Afghanistan, Iraq and had several weird operations in Syria and Libya. "Normal" values would be zero.

I long for the day when US war crimes are treated the same way as war crimes by non-western countries. Instead they pull off shit like the Hague Invasion Act.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#49

Post by ATsch »

BobbyJo wrote: post #24
ATsch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> US' own actions show that their supposed concern about the Xinjiang prisoners is wholly disingenuous point scoring. How do you feel about Xinjiang?

I think it should have been clear enough from the reply that I think China's actions in Xinjiang are reprehensible?

Maybe here's an example you'll like better: It is true that Ukraine has had a serious rise in neonazi activity in recent history. I am not a fan of neonazis. However Russia's justification of their invasion by that is obviously disingenuous. Their own government is proto-fascist, obviously they are going to do anything but that.

If you apply that same logic to the US, you'll have a pretty good understanding of my position.

Re: Former Xinjiang prisoner arrives in U.S. as key witness to abuses

#50

Post by blueflow »

lr4444lr wrote: post #42
ATsch wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I don't recall any US prison in the last 70+ years where people on the order of a million people, largely from a single region or ethnicity, were imprisoned on suspicion of mere affiliation. Every country probably has a signature few cases of prosecution that may provoke our indignation. That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state.

Nobody wants China to get away with their camps, but no one wants the US to get away with Guantanamo Bay, either.

> That's not the same as putting people into prison because their religious beliefs make them enemies of the state.

Isn't this what some people ended up in Guantanamo Bay for?

Edit: TIL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_detainees_at_Guantanamo...

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