Europe is investing heavily in trains

Post by Scarblac » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:49 AM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #431

411111111111111 wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trains are more efficient, but flights only do the most traveled routes generally, which is why they're usually booked out afaik. The same can't be said about trains usually, as they're also doing the outlying routes It makes flying seem more competitive then it actually is, as trains usually aren't booked relative how much your transportation cost and instead the overall cost to also enable these almost empty routin…

Why don't the trains just stop doing the empty runs on the outlying routes, then?

Post by im3w1l » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:51 AM UTC

black_puppydog wrote: post #423

im3w1l wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With rail, the physical rail becomes an economic chokepoint. Who controls the rail came name his price. Now you might think that the same goes for airports, but often there are multiple viable choices. E.g. in the bay area you could use SF, Oakland or San Jose.

Except "who controls the rail" is often a (private or national) entity (DB Netz / SNCF réseaux) who will have to offer access to the infrastructure to pretty heavily regulated and uniform conditions. Much like the idea of separating ISPs from the last mile infrastructure by the way.

Post by aembleton » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 6:53 AM UTC

hguant wrote: post #381

simonsarris wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is mentioned near the end of the article but the reason those short domestic flights are so cheap in Europe is that commercial kerosene is currently tax exempt in every single EU member state. Jet fuel is cheaper per gallon in the EU than it is in the USA! (or was, before the current war) In typically tax-happy Europe this always struck me as odd, agree it is sad when you find out an airplane ticket is cheaper t…

This is due to an international agreement post world war two (the 1944 Chicago Convention on Aviation) that agreed that fuel and maintenance parts necessary for _international air travel_ would be exempt from tarrifs and all taxes, barring a specific agreement between those to nations. Domestic use is taxed, and at rather steep rates (look at the US!); however, because most flights in the EU are international, it wou…

Post by jseban » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:01 AM UTC

Leherenn wrote: post #21

Fargren wrote: post #2

Living in Spain, I love trains and take them over airplane when it's an option. However, trains are often around twice as expensive as flying for may routes. I know nothing about trains, but intuitively I would expect the opposite, and I really wish it was more affordable, specially high speed rail.

Rail infrastructure is very expensive compared to planes. An airport is expensive, but once you've built it you're pretty much immediately connected to half the world. With a train station, you need a track to each surrounding stations, maintain them, and so on. Also, train doesn't scale down as well, it quickly becomes inefficient for the less dense routes. People are talking about subsidies (by not taxing fuel for…

Post by locallost » Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:02 AM UTC

aembleton wrote: post #452

locallost wrote: post #426

After reading some of the comments on the price of train tickets, and while it's true trains are on paper more expensive, there are some things to consider: * prices and conditions vary between countries. For example, in Germany your children can travel for free until 14, but apparently this is not universal and it can be a big difference for families * in a lot of countries you can pay for discount cards and get 25/…

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