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Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

theatlantic.com

131–140 of 504 posts

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#131

I have to speculate that the reason why "social media is indeed corrosive to trust in governments, news media, and people and institutions in general" is oftentimes because it highlights their apparent failings (biases, lies, etc). That is, the problem is not primarily one of people failing to trust in trustworthy institutions, but due to a hyper-focus (retweeting) on the failings of those institutions. As we communi…

> Social media allows us to highlight and amplify the information about our disagreements.

In theory.

In practice most people are too busy living their lifes and going through their struggles to voice anything. Leaving these platforms to be flooded by a vocal minority or worse, actors with an agenda.

This in turn provides a warped vision of reality to the 99% of non contributing 'listeners'.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#132
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think individual US states wouldn't be able to organize like that? Isn't that what a federal government is?

a federal government is a single body of policy which states opt into (more or less permanently). one read on GP is that we don’t need something this rigid for every coordination problem. time-limited and domain-limited agreements to which only some (large) subset of states agree could, possibly, accomplish the same things — perhaps with less political backlash in the process. for example, state AGs band together in…

>a federal government is a single body of policy which states opt into (more or less permanently).

I'm unclear as to why you're implying that the EU doesn't fit this definition, because the EU can be literally described under those terms.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#133
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’ve got this backwards. Social and cultural issues—different people’s conception of how to preserve freedom, when life begins, how to socialize their children, God, etc.—are always important to people and always have been. What precipitated the independence war that created my country was a language movement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengali_language_movement It’s the insistence on ideological uniform…

Uh, maybe it had something to do with West Pakistan robbing East Pakistan blind of foreign exchange too?

That was an important thing yes. But Bangladeshi nationalism has its roots in the language movement: https://m.theindependentbd.com//post/259643

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulatory capture is indeed a problem. But it's a hand-waving assertion that it's "much easier to pull off when there’s only one central authority that needs to be captured." This sort of claim seems to me fundamentally rooted in some specific ideas about large human organizations, specifically of the governmental kind. One of the key ideas it requires to be true is that the corruption endemic to small-scale institu…

Corruption at all levels is far more "endemic" to large organizations than small ones. It's also less visible, because size correlates with a lack of transparency.

Don't agree. Corruption "at all levels" requires coordination and/or a common stance towards it. Finding that in an organization of 3 people is not always so hard; finding it in an organization of 30k people is almost impossible.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#135
Where it really feels like it started was the Democratic exuberance when they got the Presidency + House + 60 senate seats + complete collapse of neo-conservativism in 2009.

Remember “The Death of American Conservativism.” There was a line in there about how it was hard to imagine Republicans using obscure parliamentary tricks to prevent popular legislation from passing.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#136

This is the dumbest thing I have seen come from Jonathan Haidt. If social media is this powerful a destabilizer of societies, I wonder how Haidt explains first world countries like Germany, Canada, and most of the rest of the planet that have social media but haven't fallen into the same sort of divisiveness the US has.

Does the USA have a common national identity to rally around anymore; what do a Floridian, a California, and Minnesotan have in common in the 2020's? America has always been a melting pot of different cultures. You can tell a story about how the "american dream" united Americans in the past but you can also argue that dream has been degraded over the years. Even things such as the constitution and bill of rights are…

Surprisingly, if you think about it, a lot.

Fruit, logging, Disney, NFL, MLB, boating, cheap foreign imports, militias, and wild fires.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#137
A contrarian take focuses on the increasing specialization of knowledge and the increasingly fine-grained international division of labor, which has had increasing impact on a government that fails to keep up. A rough history of that:

In the 1700s the Western democracies established nominally omnicompetant, unspecialized legislatures.

In the last 1800s, given the increasing specialization of knowledge, the first committees are established. At first this process is ad-hoc, one-off, disorganized, and often viewed as temporary.

By the early 1900s it is clear that the system of highly specialized committees are the only way for the legislatures to keep up with the rapidly growing complexity of society.

By the 1930s, in the USA, there is the growing sense that the general assembly of Congress should only act as a rubber stamp for the committees. All intelligent laws come from committees. In the rare case that a law comes from some random Congressperson, rather than a committee, their law is assuredly badly written, and full of unintended consequences. All good laws from committees, without exception.

In 1946 the committee system reaches the peak of its prestige and intellectual coherence with the Congressional Reorganization Act:

https://history.house.gov/Historical-Highlights/1901-1950/Th...

If you follow the trend line, from 1850 to 1950, and then you project that trend line into the future, it seems clear that somewhere around 1970 or 1980 there should have been a Constitutional amendment that shifted the power to make law from the Congress to the committees. A possible system that could have worked well is if the Congress continued to exist only to appoint people to committees, and then the committees themselves gained the power to make law. Rather than asking Congress to act as a rubber stamp, Congress would simply lose its traditional powers, which would shift to the committees.

Such a change would have formalized the idea that we live in a complex and highly specialized world, very different from the world of the 1700s, and so only a system of highly specialized committees can offer good government.

The failure to push forward with necessary constitutional change means that the whole system began to stagnate, and then it became vulnerable to the accusation that the government no longer worked (more and more pundits then began to suggest that the answer was less government, rather than fixing the process of governance).

The committee system was still widely respected till the 1990s. It is often said that Newt Gingrich, when he gained power in 1994, began an attack on the committee system. His goal wasn't great government, so it served his purpose to undermine the whole system.

There is universal agreement that the committee system is less important now than it was 30 years ago. Republicans have lead the way with a populist style of government in which laws are pushed forward from the floor of Congress, rather than from the committees. Many of these laws seem to be designed to function more as attention getting devices, rather than functioning first and foremost as instruments of governance.

If you buy this line of thinking, the answer is to declare the 1700s officially over and close down the nominally omnicompetant, unspecialized legislature, and implement a system of committees, with the committees holding all of the traditional legislative functions.

This would require an amendment to the Constitution, which is difficult in the USA.

Any Constitution can be transformed into any other Constitution by way of amendment, and therefore, in a sense, there is only one fundamental question of Constitutions, and that is how can they be amended. Every society needs to find a balance between stability and flexibility; every society needs to adapt to change while keeping the important fundamentals solid. Therefore there must be some ideal amount of time over which Constitutional change should play out. Too fast and it might be too easy for one moment of public hysteria to sweep away everyone's civil rights, but if too difficult, then people begin to ignore the Constitution because it no longer matches people's actual needs.

What is the ideal speed at which a Constitution should evolve? At the current moment, the world offers us two countries as examples of the dangers of the two extremes: Hungary and the USA. In Hungary it turned out to be too easy to amend the Constitution, while in the USA it has turned out to be too difficult to amend the Constitution.

I wrote an analysis of Hungary versus the USA, which got a lot of comment when I first wrote it. For anyone interested, it is here:

https://demodexio.substack.com/p/thesis-1-there-is-one-corre...

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#138
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this.. Us Americans I don't think understand how many other parts of the world don't like us. If you want evidence of this go travel, and see how people treat you, then watch their eyes light up if you tell them you are a Canadian and not American. If it wasn't Putin it would be someone else eventually. You can't win the whack-a-mole game forever. Let's say we could repeat things without Putin. Facebook and…

> watch their eyes light up if you tell them you are a Canadian and not American. This is such a cliche. I just deleted a long wordy message as to why, but I've lived abroad, speak Spanish, traveled all over and have tons of extended Canadian family, including my maternal grandmother. This sentiment is 100% not true. I could be in the middle of Tehran or Cairo and tell someone I'm from California and will inevitably…

> This sentiment is 100% not true.

Hate to break it to you but it's true. Been living in 3 different European countries for 25 years and the common perception is that these loud, ignorant tourists making fools of themselves are from the US by default.

As painful as it may sound to you in our eyes America is now a third world country with a Gucci belt.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#139
"He noted that distributed networks "can protest and overthrow, but never govern.""

That's exactly right. Except it seems, so far, like those who effectively control the networks by acting as intermediaries between its users, can suppress protest and protect themselves from being overthrown.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corruption at all levels is far more "endemic" to large organizations than small ones. It's also less visible, because size correlates with a lack of transparency.

Don't agree. Corruption "at all levels" requires coordination and/or a common stance towards it. Finding that in an organization of 3 people is not always so hard; finding it in an organization of 30k people is almost impossible.

There can be corruption at all levels without coordination.

Example: greed.

There is such a thing as unorganized corruption. Example, in lots of third world countries where their infrastructure and systems are so bad it breeds corruption. No need for a top down version of it.

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