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Impressions from a first-time Mac user

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Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#201

Post by lwkl »

jayd16 wrote: post #30
teilo wrote: post #5

Someone needs to tell him about option-click on the maximize button. Most of these "rants" really just amount to: "this different OS doesn't work exactly the same way as the OS I am used to." That's why 3rd party utilities exist to give you the functionality you wish to have. That formula cuts both ways.

This is Apple UX in a nutshell. Hidden power tools are not intuitive.

How is this Apple UX specific? Windows UX and Linux UX work the same way.

I'd argue a lot of power user feature are more accessible on macOS than on Windows. The shortcuts and gestures for macOS can be found in the system settings and you can change the shortcuts. How are you supposed to find them on Windows?

I think people see macOS as more intuitive because it doesn't offer as much customization and is relatively consistent compared to Windows. Also it doesn't have as many nested menus. The system settings on macOS go maybe three levels deep while on Windows you can go at least 5 or six levels deep if not more. Now guess which one will feel more intuitive?

The downside is you have to install some third-party tools if you want some features. But I prefer that to a lot of bloat.

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#202

Post by webmobdev »

ryukafalz wrote: post #186
brimble wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are people doing with their computers that a Mac is so stifling? I'm late to the Mac game, have been on it for about a decade, and was a 15-year Windows and Linux desktop user before that. Still, I don't even know what it might be.

The options for package management on macOS aren’t great in my experience, coming from using Linux on all my personal machines. Homebrew exists but it always feels bolted on and I’ve had things break in interesting ways using it. Nix might be better, I don’t have much experience using it on macOS. Also, tiling window managers.

That's because most mac users fall to the well-crafted publicity of Homebrew, and remain ignorant about the better https://www.macports.org/ package management system. MacPorts was inspired by the FreeBSD Ports Collection, is created by Apple engineers, used by Apple internally, is unix-y and has more packages than Homebrew. (But yeah, I think both Homebrew and MacPorts still fall behind Linux / xBSD packaging systems in terms of the number of packages they have).

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#203

Post by Serow225 »

rwc wrote: post #7
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #2

Despite the warning, I didn't find it nearly as "ranty" as the author cautioned, and instead seemed like a fairly comprehensive and fair take on his experience. Having gone through the same thing myself several years ago, the UI aspect of it is something that I'd be curious to see how it develops for the author. I think it is not uncommon for Windows folk to find the windowing experience on macs rather painful, at le…

Not that it's right or wrong, but the behavior dates back to the very first implementations of Mac OS and Windows. Mac OS has always been an application switching interface, and Windows has been a window switching interface. Takes getting used to the paradigm shift.

the Mac OS model just doesn’t work for my ADHD brain. I much prefer the Windows model, it feels much more natural fit for how my brain works :)

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#204

Post by joeman1000 »

Nice article. Coincidentally we have the same computers, even the same specs. I’ve been on macOS for 11 years now, so I’m biased.

On window snapping: why on earth would you want to obscure your desktop with two huge panes? I usually have ‘small’ applications on my desktop ‘workspace’ (terminal, reminders, messages, finder). I always see ex-windows users cluttering their desktop workspace and not utilising more workspaces. It’s more efficient (in my opinion) to have multiple workspaces and avoid the tedious game of minimising and maximising dozens of windows on the desktop. I get that it’s what you’re used to, since this behaviour is enforced on windows, but do give the macOS way a shot. Whenever I’m on windows I feel hampered by the lack of virtual workspaces.

I think some of the idiosyncrasies are worth bearing with in macOS. It’s worth it even for the consistency of the design across the OS. It seems trite, but I like that everything speaks the same design language. It feels coherent. I’m never jarred as I am on windows 10, when I open the advance control panel and find that it’s from 1999.

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#205

Post by Hammershaft »

nerdjon wrote: post #32

I always find this interesting, my primary computing device that I do actual work on is Mac (technically I guess my primary is my iPhone or iPad if I go by time but I am not counting that). But I have a Windows computer for gaming and a few Linux machines lingering around. I constantly find myself frustrated by Windows because I am just used to how Mac operates. I have been using it as my primary compute device since…

Mac OS is a better laptop OS, and Windows is a better desktop OS. Mouse support is poor on macs, window management is more painful, and multiple desktop support is rough. Meanwhile Windows has rough trackpad support, generally windows laptops have terrible battery life and buggy sleep.

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#206

Post by K7PJP »

colinmhayes wrote: post #62
jonnycomputer wrote: post #3

All OS's should come standard with sophisticated windows management. I use BetterSnapTool on my Mac, have done so for close to 10 years now. I honestly don't know what I'd do without it--and I'm not doing too much fancy. But keyboard shortcutting to maximize, minimize, or tile (left right/corners/thirds) elimintes 90% of the fiddly annoying this about dealing with the too many windows I have open. But even this basic…

I'm pretty sure macOS was designed to have every window in fullscreen 100% of the time and the user would three finger swipe to switch windows. Seems like having a shitty experience when trying to do anything besides fullscreen is kind of the point, "do things the way we want you to or suffer."

Full screen mode wasn't even a feature until OS X Lion 10.7 in 2011. Until then, the green button only Maximized a window; now you have to Option-click to get that behavior.

I rarely, if ever use Full-Screen mode. I’m struggling to understand why you think the OS is designed around this use.

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#207

Post by KerrAvon »

goosedragons wrote: post #114
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #2

Despite the warning, I didn't find it nearly as "ranty" as the author cautioned, and instead seemed like a fairly comprehensive and fair take on his experience. Having gone through the same thing myself several years ago, the UI aspect of it is something that I'd be curious to see how it develops for the author. I think it is not uncommon for Windows folk to find the windowing experience on macs rather painful, at le…

I never got used to it after a year. I wasn't even a "new" Mac user as I'd previously used Jaguar/Panther/Tiger/Leopard as well as Classic and even NeXTStep. But while those were better than XP time has marched on and I don't feel like MacOS improved enough compared to the competition (with regards to window management). If anything should have been Sherlocked it should have been rectangle/magnet etc. I also feel lik…

what do you mean by "mouse scroll toggle"?

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#208

Post by K7PJP »

gen220 wrote: post #178
ysleepy wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use Hot Corners and "Application Windows"+"Mission Control", its superior.

It's a cool feature, but it does require touching the trackpad/mouse!

You can activate Mission Control with Control-Down Arrow. After that, you can use the arrow keys to navigate, but then the pointer is significantly faster and you don't have to "think."

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#209

Post by lbrito »

darkteflon wrote: post #161
lbrito wrote: post #20

>you use what they give you, how they give it to you, using their workflows, barely customizing anything. Apple products are supposed to be revered the world over as the pinnacle of design, used by artists, engineers, professionals, and creators. Why do I feel like there are training wheels on a machine I use for productivity? Gosh, this is exactly how I felt in a similar situation. Really hit the nail on the head. I…

Cannot at all relate to this perspective. If you like PopOS, that’s great. But this nonsense about Mac fans being blinded by their love of the brand is the edgelord meme that will not die. MacOS is fine. PopOS is fine. Windows is fine. They each ask you to adopt a UI paradigm because how could they not. It’s natural that transitioning between them is costly. Every time I see comments like this I’m reminded of this gr…

>nonsense about Mac fans being blinded by their love of the brand is the edgelord meme that will not die.

Thank you for the completely unemotional comment that totally does not add to the notion I was alluding to that some fans are a bit sensitive about criticism.

Joking aside, our points are basically the same. I totally agree that nothing we create is intuitive "by definition"; that's my whole point. I would never claim that Linux or anything else is intuitive "by definition", and yet I see a lot of Mac fans claiming that. It might be perception bias, but I think not.

My first contact with a Mac was some 10 years ago. I struggled to turn it on -- contrary to _all other similar devices_, on the Mac the power button was very faintly beveled, and tucked in an invisible corner on the back of the screen (it was a desktop). I get that people might like this, totally fine. I just don't accept that this is intuitive design.

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#210

Post by tomtheelder »

colinmhayes wrote: post #50
nerdjon wrote: post #32

I always find this interesting, my primary computing device that I do actual work on is Mac (technically I guess my primary is my iPhone or iPad if I go by time but I am not counting that). But I have a Windows computer for gaming and a few Linux machines lingering around. I constantly find myself frustrated by Windows because I am just used to how Mac operates. I have been using it as my primary compute device since…

Yea, I think what OP is missing is that macOS was designed to be used with a trackpad. I think three fingers up is what they want when they alt tab. The green button makes the window full screen because using three fingers sideways and the occasional three fingers up is the best way to manage windows on small laptop screens. Even on my external monitor I have every window fullscreen. This was admittedly hard to get u…

I've got an ultrawide, and everything full screen isn't really a viable strategy, but I generally agree about like just having workspaces and shifting between them instead of keeping a bunch of windows floating around.

That said I would really prefer to use a mouse and one handed keyboard shortcuts in place of the trackpad, but when you transition applications/workspaces with the keyboard in macOS it plays the full (slooow) duration of the transition animation and you cant interact with anything until it finishes. Absolutely insane choice. On trackpad you can swipe faster and it changes faster.

I end up using my laptop with a mouse, but then using the trackpad to do gestures. It's crazy, and I really wish I could do something about it.

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