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Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

theatlantic.com

11–20 of 504 posts

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#11
Haidt makes an excellent observation about the mid-20th century unity being an aberration due to the technology of the time:

> Gurri is no fan of elites or of centralized authority, but he notes a constructive feature of the pre-digital era: a single “mass audience,” all consuming the same content, as if they were all looking into the same gigantic mirror at the reflection of their own society.

Something I think we overlook is that America was more fractious prior to the mid-20th century, but the stakes were lower because our institutions were more distributed and more local. The federal government had a vastly smaller scope back then, but so did nationwide and multinational corporations. Differences in world view are less significant when the bureaucrats and executives with power over your life live nearby instead of in another city and state. Our current structure, with a homogenous federal government and nationwide corporations arose against the backdrop of that unity.

What I see missing from Haidt's analysis is increased federalism and localism as a solution. Aside from maybe California, our individual states remain vastly less fractious than the nation as a whole. Here in Maryland, for example, our Republican governor has an approval rating over 70% in both rural and urban areas. That's not because the state doesn't have ideological diversity--a third of the state voted for Trump. But the extremes are compressed compared to the nation as a whole--Baltimore isn't San Francisco but neither is Carroll County rural Alabama. Not only that, it's hard to get folks in Carroll County worked up about Baltimore they way they get worked up about San Francisco, and vice versa.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#12
> Congress should update the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, which unwisely set the age of so-called internet adulthood (the age at which companies can collect personal information from children without parental consent) at 13 back in 1998, while making little provision for effective enforcement. The age should be raised to at least 16, and companies should be held responsible for enforcing it.

That won't change anything if parents keep buying smartphones for their 10 year olds.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#13

This is the dumbest thing I have seen come from Jonathan Haidt. If social media is this powerful a destabilizer of societies, I wonder how Haidt explains first world countries like Germany, Canada, and most of the rest of the planet that have social media but haven't fallen into the same sort of divisiveness the US has.

They may not be as dumb as the US is?

Pretty much. If you look at other EU countries, social media was essential in dividing the populations and promoting populist, nationalistic and xenophobic parties.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#14

This is the dumbest thing I have seen come from Jonathan Haidt. If social media is this powerful a destabilizer of societies, I wonder how Haidt explains first world countries like Germany, Canada, and most of the rest of the planet that have social media but haven't fallen into the same sort of divisiveness the US has.

we are getting there in Canada

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#15
post #7

This is the dumbest thing I have seen come from Jonathan Haidt. If social media is this powerful a destabilizer of societies, I wonder how Haidt explains first world countries like Germany, Canada, and most of the rest of the planet that have social media but haven't fallen into the same sort of divisiveness the US has.

Canada isn't immune from this, just look at these moronic displays. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22926134/canada-truc... This idiocy was all organized on social media. The convoys are overwhelmingly unpopular among larger Canadian society, but social media allowed them to organize in an echo chamber. No comment on Germany, but I would be betting on things being similar there, not different. My personal the…

It isn't immune, but it certainly hasn't gotten to the point it has in the US. We had a failed insurrection two years ago that killed 5 people. The truck convoy was a bunch of morons thinking they could get their way by going to Ottawa and being absolutely obnoxious --- and ultimately failing because no one wanted to put up with their shit.

Social media is a factor. It's not the main factor, and Haidt's weird focus on it rather than deeply entrenched and growing economic disparities, lack of education in the US, the rise of the religious right, and other factors is in my view kinda silly.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#16
post #8

This is the dumbest thing I have seen come from Jonathan Haidt. If social media is this powerful a destabilizer of societies, I wonder how Haidt explains first world countries like Germany, Canada, and most of the rest of the planet that have social media but haven't fallen into the same sort of divisiveness the US has.

Odd comment coming the day after far right and far left candidates won more than half the votes in the French presidential election, with the center left and right collapsing and centrist Macron getting under 30% (despite having moved significantly to the right on cultural issues).

France has its own issues as well, in many ways parallel to the US from what I have heard, with a sharp urban-rural divide and a legacy of colonialism that has largely not been addressed.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may not be as dumb as the US is?

Pretty much. If you look at other EU countries, social media was essential in dividing the populations and promoting populist, nationalistic and xenophobic parties.

Was social media the cause of the division, or did it merely allow people to exploit existing problems?

Assuming that social media is a primary factor, for the sake of argument, the solution to this problem isn't regulating the platforms via Haidt's proposals (which I should add seem to be too limited in effect). Instead, we should decentralize the platforms into protocols. While this will still allow stupid people to go into echo chambers (like with any forum or blog online) it will also limit their reach by depriving them of a singular place for a giant number of people to hear them all at once.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#18
This journalist really wrote an entire article about facebook. Why is an essay needed to descibe obvious behaviour that everyone sees and can intuitely understand with their eyes. "In the 20th century, America built the most capable knowledge-producing institutions in human history. In the past decade, they got stupider en masse."

???? People didn't get stupider in the last decade. There is access to more information and education then ever has been. We are slowing coming towards ultimate prosperity. Just look at the response to the Russia-Ukraine war. With technology education has slowly reached every human and everyone is aware of corruption and how war is merely a tool used by the powerful that only results in the rest of society harmed. Look at the reactions to things like abortion or taking rights away from people. There is so much progression yet the author lets his jaded view of Mr.Zuck's actions and his own obsession with social media to recreate this misguided world view. A view where access to political information that doesn't fit his point a view is a world where humans have become stupider.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#19

This journalist really wrote an entire article about facebook. Why is an essay needed to descibe obvious behaviour that everyone sees and can intuitely understand with their eyes. "In the 20th century, America built the most capable knowledge-producing institutions in human history. In the past decade, they got stupider en masse." ???? People didn't get stupider in the last decade. There is access to more information…

"The stupidity on the right is most visible in the many conspiracy theories spreading across right-wing media and now into Congress. “Pizzagate,” QAnon, the belief that vaccines contain microchips, the conviction that Donald Trump won reelection—it’s hard to imagine any of these ideas or belief systems reaching the levels that they have without Facebook and Twitter."

I feel sad for this author. Still clinging on to right vs left. Refusing to understand that half of the country voted for the candidate he opposes. Yet he can not make the simple intellectual jump to understand the other side? You really cannot sit in the shoes of Americans who vote differently to you and understand why they feel this way, what their reality is, what their experiences are, what they have been taught? This intolerableness stems from the author's high horse he sits on. This article is merely a reflection of his own lack of intellegence.

Re: Why the past 10 years of American life have been uniquely stupid

#20
This article is 100% wrong.

Russia's misinformation campaign against the U.S. is 100% the cause of our current national discord.

Our entire culture has been maliciously and actively poisoned by a proven state sponsored attack on the U.S. and Western Europe. Everything in the past decade needs to be re-evaluated and filtered through the lens of Russian disinformation.

Day in and day out, for over 10 years, the Russian government has been posting millions and millions of divisive and destabilizing messages online, amplifying the most controversial topics and creating true distrust and hatred among fellow Americans. Their efforts happened to occur along with the unprecedented rise of smart phones, which enabled this campaign conceived during the Obama administration, to have success beyond Russia's wildest dreams.

Additionally, there have been thousands of spies sent to the U.S. in order to infiltrate Congressional and Presidential offices, military personnel and business leaders. How many Russian spies have you heard of? Last night I watched PBS Frontline where I learned of yet another one: the former CEO of Overstock's girlfriend was revealed to be a spy by the FBI (Maria Butina). He was the guy funding and pushing for recount efforts like in Arizona. I remember reading about her, but didn't realize the connection with "stop the steal".

We need to respond. Aggressively and radically. We need to pardon the Jan 6th insurrectionists (I'm a liberal Democrat, mind you) and start a national campaign of de-russification. (As someone named Russ, I don't state that lightly. Haha. Sorry dumb joke.)

The reactions to what I'm saying will be predictable:

1) I'm oversimplifying or exaggerating.

I'm not. This is all fact.

2) I'm a liberal Democrat and I'm somehow trying to target Republicans because I hate freedom.

I'm not spreading a narrative. I'm trying desperately to understand why articles like this from the Atlantic keep trying to explain the state of the country, when we already know the answer.

When is the majority of the country going to realize we've been played and react appropriately??

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