Impressions from a first-time Mac user • Hacker News Board

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#41

Post by bombcar » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:59 PM UTC

spicyusername wrote: post #28

> Package management This always floors me when I have to use a non-Linux computer. The difference between package management on Linux and other OSes is shocking. Dnf, Yum, Pacman are all so convenient and straightforward. I can't understand why Windows and MacOS don't have anything official that fills this gap.

The main problem is that the majority of software in the Windows and Mac world doesn't come in a "package-manager" format, not really.

For *BSD and Linux, the package manager is great because if you can think of it, it's probably there ready to be installed; as long as it's software like TeX or emacs or vi or something else available in an open-source way.

But stand-alone programs? Not even things like Photoshop, I'm talking something written by someone and you want to install it? That's not as compatible with the Linux method, but Windows and Mac both have standard procedures and installers for them. Snap tries to do something here, but it's a complete joke.

And homebrew (and anything equivalent for WSL?) works pretty well.

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#42

Post by dfxm12 » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:59 PM UTC

As someone who switches around between primarily Windows and secondarily OSX, and GDM3, I find OSX to have the most intuitive window manager. I don't like apps being maximized, and I feel like I can always intuitively find the window I'm looking for in OSX, just under the active window. I find myself arranging windows in Windows like OSX might arrange them. Maybe Apple is just using a different metaphor. I understand this is very subjective though.

Apple products are supposed to be revered the world over as the pinnacle of design, used by artists, engineers, professionals, and creators.

Is this still really the case? Most of what I hear nowadays is Apple's reputation is that their products are luxury status symbols rather than a tool for creative types, outside of maybe the camera on the iPhone. 10 years ago, you might have seen the coffee shop filled with macbooks, but that's not the case today. What artist is going to afford a $1900 monitor that can only be height adjusted with a $400 upgrade?

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#43

Post by thanatos519 » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 7:59 PM UTC

lbrito wrote: post #20

>you use what they give you, how they give it to you, using their workflows, barely customizing anything. Apple products are supposed to be revered the world over as the pinnacle of design, used by artists, engineers, professionals, and creators. Why do I feel like there are training wheels on a machine I use for productivity? Gosh, this is exactly how I felt in a similar situation. Really hit the nail on the head. I…

"Training wheels" is my favourite description of the macOS GUI!

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#44

Post by xisthesqrtof9 » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

3 of the 4 items that the author mentioned can be solved with using NixOS inside a VM on your mac :)

Inspired by Mitchell Hashimoto's VMWare setup[0]. I setup my own computer in such a way, I now have the best of both worlds. Developing on a linux machine, where I can control everything if I wanted (down to the OS) and the ease of Notes/iMessages whenever I need it.

Window management is a pita because of internal APIs and the fact that Apple doesn't cater to people that actually care about these tools. Check out Yabai[1] which btw requires you to disable SIP (System Integrity Protection) if you want to use its full potential.

Instead you can run NixOS and choose your favourite window/tiling manager (i3).

Package manager: I still run Nix but I am not that happy with it. Either I need to spend some more time or look for an alternative. One of the problems is the ability to easily pin older versions.

[0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubDMLoWz76U&t=359s&ab_channe... [1] - https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#45

Post by lbrito » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

replygirl wrote: post #25

lbrito wrote: post #20

>you use what they give you, how they give it to you, using their workflows, barely customizing anything. Apple products are supposed to be revered the world over as the pinnacle of design, used by artists, engineers, professionals, and creators. Why do I feel like there are training wheels on a machine I use for productivity? Gosh, this is exactly how I felt in a similar situation. Really hit the nail on the head. I…

system76? sounds cool can it run excel and apple music?

I guess?

System76 makes laptops. They come with their own Linux distribution called PopOS.

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#46

Post by bombcar » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

traceroute66 wrote: post #17

The author makes a big deal of lack of snapping. Frankly I've never seen the utility of it on OSs that do have it, infact I've always felt it more of a hinderance than a help (gets in the way, tries to snap when you don't want it to). The author makes a big deal that you have to do Command+Tab to switch applications, and then Command+` to cycle between windows in that application. Well, frankly I think thats the bett…

I've never used snapping on any OS, but on MacOS I feel the need even less, because the programs seem really really good about remembering my window positions once I have things setup the way I want.

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#47

Post by divbzero » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #2

Despite the warning, I didn't find it nearly as "ranty" as the author cautioned, and instead seemed like a fairly comprehensive and fair take on his experience. Having gone through the same thing myself several years ago, the UI aspect of it is something that I'd be curious to see how it develops for the author. I think it is not uncommon for Windows folk to find the windowing experience on macs rather painful, at le…

What I miss most in macOS is Super + Left and Super + Right to tile windows left and right..

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#48

Post by kemayo » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:00 PM UTC

I actually like the command+tab behavior, and miss it when I use Windows.

I'll explain: if you have a lot of windows open, I think it's nice to silo them. When I have ten Firefox windows and six Sublime windows and three iTerm windows, and a few other random applications, it's generally easier to go first to the app I want and then find the window inside it, rather than always having to shuffle through 19 different windows at the top-level.

This is probably a matter of personal preference and habit, and you can make a good case for either behavior. I just don't think macOS' behavior is obviously worse... only different.

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#49

Post by lbrito » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:01 PM UTC

imwillofficial wrote: post #38

lbrito wrote: post #20

>you use what they give you, how they give it to you, using their workflows, barely customizing anything. Apple products are supposed to be revered the world over as the pinnacle of design, used by artists, engineers, professionals, and creators. Why do I feel like there are training wheels on a machine I use for productivity? Gosh, this is exactly how I felt in a similar situation. Really hit the nail on the head. I…

“You can get great hardware and battery life with system76 for instance.” The build quality of these two platforms is nowhere, and I mean nowhere close. Apples (heh) and oranges. I’m rooting for system76, but they have a long way to go.

Absolutely agree. Build quality is meh, not even good. But the battery is seriously good. Like 10+ hours good.

Re: Impressions from a first-time Mac user

#50

Post by colinmhayes » Mon, Apr 11, 2022, 8:02 PM UTC

nerdjon wrote: post #32

I always find this interesting, my primary computing device that I do actual work on is Mac (technically I guess my primary is my iPhone or iPad if I go by time but I am not counting that). But I have a Windows computer for gaming and a few Linux machines lingering around. I constantly find myself frustrated by Windows because I am just used to how Mac operates. I have been using it as my primary compute device since…

Yea, I think what OP is missing is that macOS was designed to be used with a trackpad. I think three fingers up is what they want when they alt tab. The green button makes the window full screen because using three fingers sideways and the occasional three fingers up is the best way to manage windows on small laptop screens. Even on my external monitor I have every window fullscreen. This was admittedly hard to get used to moving from windows/linux, but it really is a much better way to do windows/virtual desktops. OP should ditch the mouse.