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San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

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Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#301

Post by mikestew »

MathCodeLove wrote: post #140
marcellus23 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest watching some videos of how police behaved during the protests a couple years ago. The Verge had an excellent compilation. It’s hardly one or two bad actors. My personal favorite was the police pulling parents out of a vehicle and beating them while their children watched — the car was just trying to turn around and get out of the protest area safely. Your argument might be more valid if these “bad apples”…

I've seen plenty of those videos, and 9 times out of 10 if you're able to find the whole, unedited version of the video the officers actions suddenly seems much more reasonable. Not always, admittedly, but very often.

With that many examples, it should be simple to post just one example to make your point. But unsubstantiated contrarianism typically does not contribute to a conversation.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#302

Post by rootusrootus »

eru wrote: post #178
pge wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, fines for moving violations identified by camera are the responsibility of the car owner, regardless of who was driving at the time of the infraction. The inability to identify the driver just means that the owner is not convicted of a moving violation, but he is stil l financially responsible for the penalty.

Is that a federal rule, or decided by the states?

States.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#303

Post by selectodude »

yc-kraln wrote: post #136
snovv_crash wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US driving test standards are still a joke compared to overseas.

There is no such thing as "US" driving test standards. Each state has its own requirements. Some are quite weak, and some are very vigorous: For instance, Maryland driving licenses are accepted 1:1 as equivalent to the German driving license, you can exchange them without an exam or test. NY and CA... do not simply transfer.

That doesn't mean much because most states, including Texas, also have full reciprocity with Germany. There doesn't really seem to be any rhyme or reason to what states they deem "equivalent".

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#304

Post by snikeris »

jwr wrote: post #72

I am really worried by the fact that I am the unwilling tester in the Great Driverless Car Experiment. Tradition has it that when you load-test a new bridge, you put the architect underneath. I feel like this, except I didn't design those driverless cars, somebody else did. Being an experienced software engineer, my trust in the software in these cars is pretty low. And yet they are testing them on me, because I can…

This is one of the problems with technology that Ted Kaczynski wrote about. You can't opt out.

> Even the walker’s freedom is now greatly restricted. In the city he continually has to stop to wait for traffic lights that are designed mainly to serve auto traffic. In the country, motor traffic makes it dangerous and unpleasant to walk along the highway. (Note this important point that we have just illustrated with the case of motorized transport: When a new item of technology is introduced as an option that an individual can accept or not as he chooses, it does not necessarily REMAIN optional. In many cases the new technology changes society in such a way that people eventually find themselves FORCED to use it.)

Your problem is the same as the walker's. The walker has opted out of the automobile, but still has to breathe its pollution and risk being hit by it.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#305

Post by rootusrootus »

pge wrote: post #78
brigade wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parking citations attach to the car (as does civil collision liability generally), but moving violations can only be levied against the driver. Which is how some red light camera fines are avoided, if the driver isn’t clearly identifiable by the camera.

In the US, fines for moving violations identified by camera are the responsibility of the car owner, regardless of who was driving at the time of the infraction. The inability to identify the driver just means that the owner is not convicted of a moving violation, but he is stil l financially responsible for the penalty.

This is specific to jurisdiction. Having received a ticket for speeding from an automated camera, they just sent me a picture and told me to pay up or deny that it was me. In Oregon, moving violations attach to drivers only, so if they cannot prove you were driving the car at the time they drop the ticket.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#306

Post by bin_bash »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #238
IgorPartola wrote: post #88

Being used to riding motorcycles in the US, why are headlights not always on for all vehicles at this point? LED bulbs last a very long time and there is little reason to not have them on during the day. I know, it’s much more fun to anthropomorphize the car in this case, but the simple solution is to just hard wire them.

It's been required to do so in some northern European countries. The practical reason there is that dawn and dusk can take many hours during much of the year at higher latitudes thus creating a weird situation where it's not really clear when exactly you should have the lights on or off in exactly the kind of situation where a lot of accidents can happen if you don't have them on. The simple rule of "always have your…

> I can't think of any good reason to voluntarily reduce my visibility while cycling through potentially lethal traffic.

Watch more horror movies and you'll think of some.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#307

Post by zip1234 »

MisterTea wrote: post #296
nkingsy wrote: post #279

Just my anecdote, saw a cruise car trying to turn left from the middle lane on Franklin. Came to a complete stop, bringing traffic to a halt, and waited for the cars on its left to clear out, including anyone who went around, then cautiously moved into the left lane and turned. Some kind of rude, selfish programming I’d be yelling at a person for.

> Some kind of rude, selfish programming I’d be yelling at a person for. Sounds like an inexperienced or incompetent driver who lacks confidence. Basically, the kind of driver that shouldn't be on the road.

Perhaps all human drivers are incompetent? In the USA there are 5 million crashes that involve insurance every year. Insurance companies say that someone will get in a crash (however minor) once every ~18 years of driving on average.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#308

Post by Retric »

dfxm12 wrote: post #284
ISL wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Triggering testing/education after traffic violations might be a middle-ground.

This seems too reactive. I agree it is better than nothing, but if someone is going to have the wherewithal to put a law in place around this, I think the goal should should be more about preventing violations than punishment. Maybe you should have to re-take the test when your license expires instead of the license being a lifetime certification. That would be every four years in my state. Not sure if it is differen…

States already introduce mandatory vision tests and inquire about medical history with age even very Red or Blue states.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/section/driver-license/drivers-age...

https://www.dmv.com/md/maryland/senior-drivers?tg1=DVA&utm_c...

Florida has vision requirements, and accepts reports of medical issues making driving unsafe: https://www.flhsmv.gov/driver-licenses-id-cards/medical-revi...

In that context Florida’s standards are lax, but still exist.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#309

Post by pbrb »

pie42000 wrote: post #290
lubujackson wrote: post #247

The real surprise here is that SF police pulled over a car at all. Have been here for more than a decade and I can count the times I have seen a car pulled over in SF on one finger - meanwhile, I have seen numerous cars blow through red lights, speeding, U-turns in the middle of the street etc. in front of police with no response.

Yeah, this was my impression as well. In Chicago you have police actively pulling people over all the time. In SF i have literally not seen a single person pulled over in the year I've been here. For context, in Chicago i would see about 1 per day, and double that in Wisconsin.

In Chicago? Like, in the city proper and not the suburbs? I've lived most of my life in Chicago, and it's basically unheard of to get pulled over for a traffic violation.

Lately, blatant disregard for traffic laws in Chicago has gotten so bad that it's a little terrifying. It's become a common thread on the r/chicago subreddit with regular posts pointing out how bad it's gotten and how police never stop anybody.

Here are two posts from yesterday alone:

https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/tzyrmn/red_lights_...

https://www.reddit.com/r/chicago/comments/u0x3sd/im_getting_...

EDIT: Wanted to point this out b/c I think it's a larger problem in general of people not following rules of the road, not isolated to specific cities.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#310

Post by ratmice »

carabiner wrote: post #287
jwr wrote: post #72

I am really worried by the fact that I am the unwilling tester in the Great Driverless Car Experiment. Tradition has it that when you load-test a new bridge, you put the architect underneath. I feel like this, except I didn't design those driverless cars, somebody else did. Being an experienced software engineer, my trust in the software in these cars is pretty low. And yet they are testing them on me, because I can…

You didn't design the aircraft that you fly on, which are incredibly computerized. Also the drugs that your doctor prescribes. Etc. You put your faith in myriad bureaucracies and trust networks that you have no hope of understanding. Driverless cars are just one more added to the list.

Aircraft is a vastly different problem at a much smaller scale. Where did our ground traffic controllers go?
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