Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#51

Post by Synaesthesia » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 3:26 PM UTC

felipemnoa wrote: post #27

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #23

I will never understand how HN manages to be so (maybe relatively) anti-drug, even in a latent fashion on this topic. I do, not, understand this sentiment. For all of the things that HN does not take at face value, there is a blind acceptance of the "drugs are evil" viewpoint espoused (often exclusively in the face of their own studies, dozens of times, over 20 years ) by the United States Government. Downvote within…

Maybe because is better to be safe than sorry? The fact is that there are a lot of people whose life is very publicly destroyed by drugs.

In terms of safety, alcohol and tabacco rank worse than illegal substances like Marijuana, LSD, MDMA and other illegal drugs.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#52

Post by ldh » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 3:27 PM UTC

bbgm wrote: post #24

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #23

I will never understand how HN manages to be so (maybe relatively) anti-drug, even in a latent fashion on this topic. I do, not, understand this sentiment. For all of the things that HN does not take at face value, there is a blind acceptance of the "drugs are evil" viewpoint espoused (often exclusively in the face of their own studies, dozens of times, over 20 years ) by the United States Government. Downvote within…

They may not be evil, but they aren't particularly good for you either

All illegal drugs are not equivalent simply because they happen to be currently illegal. Some of them aren't even particularly bad for you.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#53

Post by dualogy » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 3:28 PM UTC

garethsprice wrote: post #38

bbgm wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may not be evil, but they aren't particularly good for you either

You could say the same about chocolate cake.

Sugar, you're right. Natural organic unsweetened dark chocolate "in moderation"? No concerns, antioxidant, aphrodisiac etc. pp.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#54

Post by marquis » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 3:28 PM UTC

rick888 wrote: post #46

melling wrote: post #6

I've never used illegal drugs, and I've never had a desire. However, the one problem we do have by keeping certain drugs illegal is that Americans are destroying countries, like Mexico, where a week doesn't by where a drug gang hasn't killed someone. Illegal drug money is used to finance so much corruption and killing, that there seems to be little value in keeping them illegal, especially considering that everyone w…

"Illegal drug money is used to finance so much corruption and killing, that there seems to be little value in keeping them illegal, especially considering that everyone who wants to take drugs still does. If certain drugs do have harmful effects then at least the effects will be mostly limited to the people who take them." Mexico is already corrupt without the drugs. Making them legal will give the cartels even more…

>Making them legal will give the cartels even more power because they will now be able to legally sell drugs in the US.

Does Anheuser-Busch engage in lethal turf warfare in the manner of Al Capone? Yes, I agree that the cartels would move into legal territory but quite frankly, as someone who spends a lot of time in Mexico, the country would be happy to see the terror gone, jobs created and the tax benefits reaped.

Re: legalization and decriminalization: see recent studies in Portugal where addiction rates and criminal activity is plummeting.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#55

Post by kristofferR » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 3:30 PM UTC

Tim Ferris does a high dose of mushrooms (psilocybin) once a year. He says that each trip has had a major positive impact for several months and solved a major problem in his life.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/17192634 @ 0:33:42

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#56

Post by ldh » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 3:31 PM UTC

sjtgraham wrote: post #13

Jobs was one of a kind, and to attribute his achievements even in part, to hallucinogens is a fallacy. If it was true, there would be more people like Steve Jobs in the world today. I think Steve was wrong on this, as he was wrong on other things, i.e. that pancreatic cancer could be treated with a special diet. Maybe if Steve sought medical attention earlier he would still be with us today changing the world.

The man himself asserted that certain experiences are integral to his outlook, and by extension a certain measure of his success. Maybe you don't like how he came by those experiences - so what? What fallacy is being committed here?

I wouldn't conflate his position on hallucinogens with his opinion on alternative medicine. He doesn't have to be either all right or all wrong.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#57

Post by Hitchhiker » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 3:32 PM UTC

http://homepage.mac.com/mseffie/handouts/hindsight.html

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#58

Post by ldh » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 3:36 PM UTC

bluedanieru wrote: post #48

VMG wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

downvoted for irrational mysticism

It's not particularly irrational or mystic. That experience he describes is quite common for people who use mushrooms a few times. What is the difference between you and a chair? What makes your brain so special, and why is it so important that it continue to exist? Why shouldn't a stick held in your hand be considered part of your body (in fact, one of the big differences between humans and most animals is that, unc…

Well stated. It always turns me off when people use mysticism as a comforting hand-wave for things which can readily be be stated more plainly, as if shedding some rationality on a subject makes it any less awesome.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#59

Post by Symmetry » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 3:37 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #6

I've never used illegal drugs, and I've never had a desire. However, the one problem we do have by keeping certain drugs illegal is that Americans are destroying countries, like Mexico, where a week doesn't by where a drug gang hasn't killed someone. Illegal drug money is used to finance so much corruption and killing, that there seems to be little value in keeping them illegal, especially considering that everyone w…

Mostly I worry about about prohibition causing corruption in the US. The War on Terror has done a lot to erode civil liberties, but the War on Drugs has done even more.

Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom

#60

Post by ldh » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 3:39 PM UTC

felipemnoa wrote: post #32

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? And there are a lot of peoples' lives destroyed by greed. Does that mean you don't seek to make money? A greater percentage of water drinks drown than marijuana/lsd/mushroom users die from marijuana/etc usage. (As in, no one dies from them.)

That is a logical fallacy.

Which fallacy?