Looks more like the scientists are choosing the wrong tool to do their job. Sure you can use excel, to get a sense of the data, but for god sake, there are better tools for that - or even contribute to an existing open source one to do what you need. I'm quite sure scientists could get some grants to hire actual software engineers to come up with a better solution, based on the open source options existing there.
Human genes renamed to stop Microsoft Excel from misreading them as dates (2020)
71–80 of 143 posts
Re: Human genes renamed to stop Microsoft Excel from misreading them as dates (2020)
#72The real problem is of course using Excel to maintain data. That's not what it's for. That's what databases are for. Excel is for complex calculations over rows and columns. And of course it should be better at data validation; you should be able to tell it whether a certain column is a date or not, and Excel shouldn't be jumping to stupid conclusions about it, but it does, and that means you need to be careful and n…
classical situation where the tool defines the workflow and not the other way around..
Re: Human genes renamed to stop Microsoft Excel from misreading them as dates (2020)
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The real problem is of course using Excel to maintain data. That's not what it's for. That's what databases are for. Excel is for complex calculations over rows and columns. I use MS Excel extensively and create new .xlsx files every week even though I know databases like SQLite, MySQL, and did consulting for Oracle RDBMS. The problem is that databases do not include a GUI for data viewing . And even though I also k…
You are not supposed to have a GUI view when you have 100K+ entries. Excel misguides people to think that database management is easy. The reality is it is not possible to have a GUI view of middle-large databases with millions of entries because it is computationally impossible
One thing I've learnt over the years, is that users do not care about the inherent complexity of your problem.
Like water, they will always choose the path of least resistance. It is why people would rather copy-paste documents than learn git, despite versioning being inherently complex. It is why people complain about android, but only use 1st party preinstalled apps or freemium ad-infested crap.
Excel works and it is easy. It does not matter how hard the underlying problem is. I hate having to use excel too, but I have found myself periodically relying on it when timelines get too narrow and having a ready-made interactive dashboard is convenient.
That being said, I can't imagine using it for a use-case where the rows-of-interest are greater than a few dozen.
Re: Human genes renamed to stop Microsoft Excel from misreading them as dates (2020)
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
What'd be wrong with using something like DBeaver, SqliteStudio, or PG-Admin? Or buying a tool like DataGrip? Microsoft Access even allows you to create your own UI forms for a database. You don't need to write your own GUI for databases. Loads exists.
>What'd be wrong with using something like DBeaver, SqliteStudio, or PG-Admin? Or buying a tool like DataGrip? Microsoft Access 1) Those utilities are not typically included in the workstation image of laptops/desktops unlike MS Excel which is already part of Office 365. Millions are already familiar with the GUI of Excel. 2) The datagrid viewers in those tools are not powerful and feature-rich like Excel. They are o…
We are talking about scientists, which are for sure able and used to work through different tools during their career. And we are in 2022. We have good tools that with investment could be a much better fit. Said that, I don't know what one cannot do with i.e RStudio to use Excel for science. In a second moment, python, pandas and notebook are pretty accessible too..
Re: Human genes renamed to stop Microsoft Excel from misreading them as dates (2020)
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The real problem is of course using Excel to maintain data. That's not what it's for. That's what databases are for. Excel is for complex calculations over rows and columns. I use MS Excel extensively and create new .xlsx files every week even though I know databases like SQLite, MySQL, and did consulting for Oracle RDBMS. The problem is that databases do not include a GUI for data viewing . And even though I also k…
> If I then want to share a dataset with a colleague and email it to them, the easiest friction-free way is to attach an .xlsx file. Sending them an email with attachments of SQlite .db file + executable app for Windows/macOS is much more cumbersome. The alternative of sending them a link to a cloud-based "database-as-worksheet" SaaS platform just creates another set of problems. An all-in-one db+gui tool like MS Acc…
> The problem is I would guess less than 1% of Excel users actually understand this functionality
Do you have any recommendations for getting started with this?
Re: Human genes renamed to stop Microsoft Excel from misreading them as dates (2020)
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The real problem is of course using Excel to maintain data. That's not what it's for. That's what databases are for. Excel is for complex calculations over rows and columns. I use MS Excel extensively and create new .xlsx files every week even though I know databases like SQLite, MySQL, and did consulting for Oracle RDBMS. The problem is that databases do not include a GUI for data viewing . And even though I also k…
> The problem is that databases do not include a GUI for data viewing. Exactly. It baffles me that such a tool still doesn't exist (though elsewhere someone claimed that MS Access is like this; I'm not familiar with it). Keeping this in the cloud, with a web-based Excel-like interface, where you can share it with anyone you choose, but keep a single source of truth, I think that would be incredibly useful and solve t…
Funnily enough, I think one the original IBM PC killer apps was exactly that - dBase III https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBase
MS Access was the usurper of dBase's crown. And then Excel took over ...
Re: Human genes renamed to stop Microsoft Excel from misreading them as dates (2020)
#77Isn't this solved by putting a single quote, or something of the sort, in front of the data?
Re: Human genes renamed to stop Microsoft Excel from misreading them as dates (2020)
#78The real problem is of course using Excel to maintain data. That's not what it's for. That's what databases are for. Excel is for complex calculations over rows and columns. And of course it should be better at data validation; you should be able to tell it whether a certain column is a date or not, and Excel shouldn't be jumping to stupid conclusions about it, but it does, and that means you need to be careful and n…
It's a real shame, because Excel is great for taking quick notes when you have data, but you're not yet sure how you'll want to organize it, or what you'll want to do with it long term. You start by just jotting down numbers. But then you have everything there an an easy to digest form. You can create pivot tables to sort the data. Graphing is easy. The data gets stuck there because it's so easy to use and it's already there.
Re: Human genes renamed to stop Microsoft Excel from misreading them as dates (2020)
#79Similarly, if your last name is "Null", sometimes it's just easier to just change your last name.
This has got a "Bobby Tables"[1] vibe to it. While I personally do not like the concept of adjusting data to fit a tool, as others have pointed out, Excel, for better or worse, is ubiquitous. To the obvious detriment of genomics. And likely others.
Any tool that seeks to replace it would need to be as easy to use, as flexible. And preferably fewer bugs.
The problem is that the paradigm for spreadsheets works well for many projects, even if the implementations are crap.
[1] https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/5/5f/exploits_of_a_m...
Re: Human genes renamed to stop Microsoft Excel from misreading them as dates (2020)
#80Looks more like the scientists are choosing the wrong tool to do their job. Sure you can use excel, to get a sense of the data, but for god sake, there are better tools for that - or even contribute to an existing open source one to do what you need. I'm quite sure scientists could get some grants to hire actual software engineers to come up with a better solution, based on the open source options existing there.
> I'm quite sure scientists could get some grants to hire actual software engineers to come up with a better solution
Uh ... no. Grants rarely ever support SWE outside of a core application. No granting agency would support writing a new open source tool that effectively replicates what is available in market today.
You are right in that genomic scientists chose poorly here. Excel isn't the right tool for the job, but there are very few options that could work, and the others required some assembly ... which they couldn't get money to fund. And the other potential solutions were not ubiquitous.
For them, renaming genes is the easier solution than switching workflows to new (to be assembled) tooling. Remember, scientists are people too ... they will opt to take paths of lower resistance even when they are suboptimal.