Live data from Hacker News

FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

reason.com

251–260 of 393 posts

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#251
post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

>Let's also compare to Kyle Rittenhouse. Attorneys wanted to use the fact that one of his victims was a sex offender as a defense [3]. There are two possibilities here:

>1. Rittenhouse didn't know of this, in which case it's immaterial; and

>2. Rittenhouse knew, in which case this was a targeted killing (ie murder).

>No one is arguing Rittenhouse knew. The whole point here is post facto justification. This is for the court of public opinion and to give the jury something to hang their hat on with an acquittal. That's it.

No, the whole point is arguing that Rosenbaum likely instigated the altercation, using his repeated violent behavior in the past as character evidence to show this. If Rittenhouse had instigated the fight then he would have had to additionally prove in court that he attempted to retreat in order for his shooting to be considered self-defense, if Rosenbaum instigated then it remains simple self-defense.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#252
And now we get to it, but people are more concerned about pro-nouns and fighting over hurt feelings among themselves and other groups to realise the problem here.

Aside from the observation that the rich class is made up of mostly white people the problem is 1 rule for them 1 rule for the rest. Look at the lockdown parties in the UKs political capital whilst idiots were fighting over face-masks in shops.

I applaud the FBI for being raked through the mud for this, they bloomin well deserve this. They will no-doubt counter with the cost of restoring a building and public money as if often the get-out.

Either stand-up/speak-out to all of the oppression or don't, picking and choosing is just enabling fighting amongst those who are also being trodden on.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#253
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have cases of just regular-ass police in the US breaking through the door, shooting the family dog and dragging people out in their underwear. Wrong guy? Whoops. Sorry. No reimbursement.

Well, when there is reimbursement (via lawsuits) it is the city that pays for it. The police should be self-insured, backed by their pension fund. They are granted incredible power with no real accountability.

This, exactly this.

Police pension funds should be the source of all police misconduct payments. The older guys would _immediately_ weed out the bad apples when it starts hurting their own wallet badly enough.

Paying for misconduct from city funds is a joke.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The defense brought up one of the rittenhouse attackers was a sex offender to show they are an individual with less than good morals. Someone who would be willing to attack someone with the crowd. So, no, this piece of evidence is not immaterial. Everything in this world is not race based. There are other nuances to the world that the MSM is hiding to push their race based fear mongering.

> Someone who would be willing to attack someone with the crowd. Would they, though? Because one is a criminal of one type, they are criminals of all types? Edit: I am not defending a sex offender. I just don't think one crime is a gateway for all crimes.

>Would they, though? Because one is a criminal of one type, they are criminals of all types?

It's certainly not a 100% always the case sort of thing, but yes, crime stats show that this is generally the case.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#255
post #220
post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

The suspect in this case was Tarek Abou-Khatwa , who, maybe I’m making assumptions here, doesn’t sound like he’s white. Are you saying that the super-racist FBI agents decided to cut Mr. Abou-Khatwa a break because he’s a member of the good ol’ boys club?

The way people of a certain political persuasion are talking about race recently reminds me of this scene from an old Family Guy skit.

https://i.imgflip.com/2oxj8k.jpg

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#256
post #252

And now we get to it, but people are more concerned about pro-nouns and fighting over hurt feelings among themselves and other groups to realise the problem here. Aside from the observation that the rich class is made up of mostly white people the problem is 1 rule for them 1 rule for the rest. Look at the lockdown parties in the UKs political capital whilst idiots were fighting over face-masks in shops. I applaud th…

The constant outrage around pronouns, systemic racism, and others is specifically engineered and pushed forward to hide the rich vs poor problematic and keep people busy and with the feeling that they are fighting the system.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Duncan Lemp should have received the media attention he deserves. That being said: 1- You said "This kind of violence affects everyone" and this is disingenuous when we look at the ratio of black vs white being murdered by police. [1] 2- The media attention Breonna et al. received was not about the individuals but for the community in general due to my previous point. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pn…

This is disingenious at best. Looking at the population ratio vs killing makes no sense whatsoever. In that case just use that to justify why men are more often subject to police violence than women. We all know why, but with race there may be no differences ... but there are. In the case of race you can't just ignore that black people do roughly 50% of violent crimes (just look at arson, don't even try to excuse it)…

> black people do roughly 50% of violent crimes

Thank you for this information. So do you support the fact that police in this country are working as a judge, jury and executor?

I am sorry, but if I were you, I'd be ashamed to use such justification for people's killings.

Let's focus on the issue at hand, policing violence is a problem that needs to be addressed, putting the blame on one side or the other because "they're more violent" is not a good start to any serious discussion except to shield police from their actions.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#258
post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

> is for the court of public opinion

Agreed,

> with an acquittal

Disagree.

It was the other way round for the Rittenhouse case. (I watched the entire stream. So for once, I can say I know about the case). Bringing their integrity into the conversation was a hail-mary play for conviction by the prosecutor, because they suspected they'd lose.

The Rittenhouse trial had gone from a cut-n-dry innocence case to one that was attempting to make his trial appear as if it was a hate crime. The prosecutors actively tried to make Rittenhouse look like an out-for-blood killer, the victims look like the nicest people alive and make it appear impossible that the victims could've threatened his life (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary).

It makes complete sense for the defense to counter accusations of bad character with the same when trying to establish plausible threat from the rioters. This was a white-on-white crime, and I still don't understand why the left chose this case as their 'systemic racism' hill-to-die-on.

> mere suggestion that the system is inherently racist

It isn't the mere suggestion is it? It is an active effort to defund and abolish the police. The lasting legacy of the BLM protests was the murders seen in emancipated-zones (CHAZ) and the massive spike in homicides following police defunding. The BLM movement was an ideological package, and I can see why someone would reject the combo-deal even if they agreed with certain aspects of it.

Just because I agree with the general direction of the identified problems, doesn't mean I agree with the solution.

Kyle Rittenhouse's trial occurred alongside Ahmaud Arbery's, and his white killers were sentenced to life in prison by a grand jury of eight white people, three black people and one hispanic person. As long as we are looking at anecdotes, there are plenty on either sides, making grand claims rather hard to substantiate.

___________

The American police system has a problem. It ties into the availability of guns, astronomical gun homicide numbers [1] and the general atmosphere of fear in this nation. I am certain that stereotypes amounting to racism are a part of the greater victimization of black men in 2022 America and that every unarmed killing by police is a tragedy. But, both those issues are nowhere close to the biggest problems in American law enforcement.

Its hyper amplification plays into the current political polarization of the US, such that the only acceptable & amplified opinions are ones on the fringes. It reminds me of Germany's Greens banning all nuclear power in their scorched-earth approach towards imperfect renewables; and that leading to greater CO2 emissions and Russian willingness to invade Ukraine.

Unless American society is willing to accept that their opponents come from a place of good-faith, they will never be able to work towards a mutual-compromise solution. In my experience, those are the only solutions that work in a democracy.

[1] https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(15)01030-X/pdf#:~:...(

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#259
Struggling to find something worth discussing in this article: my takeaway is that we can preserve the life and property of our neighbor by making our homes look nicer. :)

This principle plays out in small ways, too. Be diligent about picking up trash in your neighborhood and over time, the rate of littering will decrease. Park carefully on your curb and fewer will park haphazardly or on the wrong side. And so on.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#260
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Number of convicted criminals Age of criminal Sex Income Type of crime Residence area Profession

One consideration is that this type of data can't possibly answer the grandparents question, because we know that the rate of prosecution and conviction is rather unequal, so for any subpopulation "number of convicted criminals" can not be expected to be proportional to "number of crimes", if one of two groups has more convictions it does not imply that it actually has done more crime.

Fortunately we have other sources of data such as the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). The NCVS asks victims of crimes for details about the perpetrators (amongst many other things). The data aren't perfectly comparable due to how the studies are performed, the way things are categorized, etc., but the NCVS largely corroborates the FBI crime reports. Namely, that Blacks and Hispanics commit a hugely disproportionate amount of crime compared to Whites and Asians.

https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/race-and-ethnicity-...

Post reply on HN