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FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

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Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#201

Post by samatman »

simiones wrote: post #165
_Nat_ wrote: post #63

> "I can tell you that is not protocol. The problem is there are two justice systems: 1 for poor people and minorities and 1 for rich people and generally white people. You see it when you are one of the few black agents. Everyone is not equal." Was " Tarek Abou-Khatwa " not a minority? [The surname " Abou " appears to be most commonly associated with either Niger or Egypt]( https://forebears.io/surnames/abou ), whil…

They say "1 [justice system] for poor people and minorities; and 1 for rich people and generally white people". In this case, this may have been about a rich person who happens not to be white (though they may well be - you're assuming a name implies a particular ethnicity, which is likely but not 100% certain).

Which we could falsify, if we could identify minorities who don't have this problem because they're generally wealthy, and recognizable groups of white people who do have this problem because they're dirt poor.

But how could we possibly do such a thing? Here, in the United States?

Guess we'll never know if the racist part is true or not!

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#202

Post by simiones »

belter wrote: post #169
simiones wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "find the most amount of criminal activity"? Is this about criminal activity that can be easily found? Is it about criminal activity that happens in the household? Would tax evasion qualify as criminal activity? How about minor building code violations? Labor law violations?

Anything the law considers criminal activity. From stealing a car to setting up a secret Cayman Islands Trust fund to avoid taxes.

Well, then I'd bet that rich people commit many times more offenses, but that medium-to-low income people would have many times more offenses that can actually be found by searching their homes, or even proven at all.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#203

Post by bell-cot »

Miner49er wrote: post #182
bell-cot wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse - imagine you're an FBI field agent, and your "kick in the front door" operation turned into a "SS agents and FBI agents shooting each other" train wreck - because there was a Secret Service protection detail on the other side of that door, and an agent or few got a very fast judgement call wrong , in the heat of the moment. Or similar, with some VIP who's got trigger-happy private security - because he knows t…

This is a risk that is taken in every "kick in the front door" operation. The people inside generally have right to self-defense and may start shooting. So it's not an excuse to not do it in a certain neighborhood.

Ah...here in the U.S., the consequences for law enforcement agents who gun down innocent homeowners, who were only exercising their rights...those consequences are generally rather mild. Federal agents gunning down each other would have far worse career consequences for the agent who made the "kick in the door" decision.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#204

Post by ss108 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #51
exogeny wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're inexorably linked in this country. That shouldn't even need to be pointed out.

> shouldn't even need to be pointed out Perhaps our greatest failure is the generation that takes any contest to this claim as heresy.

I agree that a lot (though not all) of the issues people want to pin on race are really just about class, but would you deny that there is at least a correlation between race and class?

Or that law enforcement has a bad racism problem? To be clear, I don't think most cops are racist or bad (in our current culturo-political moment, I probably err on the more pro-cop side), but it's certainly a problem that hasn't been given any real thought or attention by most police departments.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#206

Post by woodruffw »

dahfizz wrote: post #193
woodruffw wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re missing the point. We place people on trial for committing crimes, not for having “less than good morals.” Criminal courts typically exclude references to a victim’s character for precisely this reason: the goal is to determine whether a crime was committed, not whether the jurors would have personally liked the victim.

Character witnesses are extremely common[1]. The issue isn't whether the jury would have liked the victim. The question was "did the victim attack Kyle?". The fact that the victim had a known violent past is very relevant to that question. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/character_witness

The requirement for a victim’s character witness is that it be a “pertinent” trait. It’s not clear to me that a sexual crime (even an extremely serious one) provides is pertinent to an individual’s homicidal capacity, even if Rittenhouse was somehow aware of the victim’s prior conviction. Which brings us back to the parent’s original point.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#207

Post by Bilal_io »

throwaway040922 wrote: post #194
jmyeet wrote: post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

Duncan Lemp was white, and was similarly awoken in the middle of the night by police, reached for a gun, and was shot dead (unlike Locke, I don't think he even pointed the gun at them). It actually happened the day before the Breonna Taylor shooting (another similar situation), but received almost no media attention. Even around the area where Duncan Lemp was killed, you will find a lot of posters for Breonna Taylor,…

I believe Duncan Lemp should have received the media attention he deserves. That being said:

1- You said "This kind of violence affects everyone" and this is disingenuous when we look at the ratio of black vs white being murdered by police. [1] 2- The media attention Breonna et al. received was not about the individuals but for the community in general due to my previous point.

[1]https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1821204116

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#208

Post by samatman »

rascul wrote: post #158
DoctorOW wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should start over, get rid of those parasites, move the capital to the center of the USA like Lebanon, KS out of the swamp. The physical location of the capitol has been irrelevant since airplanes, cell phones, and the internet. The swamp is a metaphor, not a physical place.

> The swamp is a metaphor, not a physical place. It's an old myth that Washington DC was built on a swamp.

Of course it wasn't a swamp! That's a Republican talking point, feed it into a search engine all day, the search engine will tell you how dumb you are, it was never a swamp.

Nope, it was a wetland! https://doee.dc.gov/service/history-wetlands-district

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#209

Post by BurningFrog »

tareqak wrote: post #82
imgabe wrote: post #3

FYI the neighborhood is Kalorama in DC, where a lot of diplomats and high-level government officials live. Maybe the agents didn't want one of the neighbors to call the director of the FBI to have them chewed out for "making the neighborhood look bad", which is not an impossible thing to happen there considering who the neighbors are. I imagine if you're an FBI field agent, the last thing you want for your career is…

I'd argue that the someone in the neighborhood should call the director of the FBI for unequal treatment of suspects regardless of which neighborhood they live in and who they happen to be.

The point is whose call the director would have to take.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#210

Post by woodruffw »

dahfizz wrote: post #190
jmyeet wrote: post #178

Let's compare this experience to that of Amir Locke [1]. To summarize: the Minneapolis PD was executing a no-knock warrant in a homicide investigation. Locke was not the target of the warrant but was sleeping on the couch. He was licensed for the firearm and it was completely legal. When startled awake, he reached for his gun (natural reaction) and the police shot and killed him. You'd think the NRA would be all over…

I agree that the justice system is racist. I am tired of Rittenhouse being used as race bait. Everyone involved in that story was white. Kyle, and all the people that he shot / attacked him. I don't even see how your point about Rittenhouse applies at all. There are plenty of examples of white people getting off easy, but you're instead nitpicking the legal defense of this one case. You're instigating a fight more th…

You’re omitting the part where the shooter went to a civil rights protest with a rifle. The fact that he happened to kill two white people rather than black ones isn’t an overriding consideration.
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