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San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

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Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#111

Post by Archelaos »

sseagull wrote: post #65
DennisP wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily, if you make your intentions clear, e.g. by slowing down and putting your hazards on.

Well, most of the time. If the cop feels like it, they can make you have a very bad time. https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7645474002 “An Arkansas woman says she had no safe place to pull over in July 2020 when a state trooper tried to stop her for speeding, so she turned on her hazard lights and slowed down. Moments later, the officer rammed her vehicle, causing it to flip over and injuring the woman”

In my country this would be an illegal disproportionate action. Did the state trooper get away with this? If not, wouldn't it be time to change the law?

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#112

Post by jeromegv »

MathCodeLove wrote: post #106
MereInterest wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People did say exactly the same for regular cars. The result was a massive advertising campaign to establish the concept of jaywalking, and to make the street the sole domain of the car. I can easily imagine a similar campaign to label pedestrians as irresponsible for walking outside without an ultrasonic emitter, or a lidar reflector, or whatever integrates with the self-driving system. Whatever shifts the responsib…

You say "advertising campaign" as if it were some conspiracy by the world's big auto manufacturers 1. Do you have any sources? 2. You don't think that roads should be a car only domain? What do you think roads are for?

1. https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history The forgotten history of how automakers invented the crime of "jaywalking" (books and more sources are quoted in that article)

2. Roads existed before cars. This is an extremely American view to think that roads should be exclusively for cars. Roads should be for PEOPLE, regardless of which mode of transport they are using.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#113

Post by MathCodeLove »

sseagull wrote: post #65
DennisP wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily, if you make your intentions clear, e.g. by slowing down and putting your hazards on.

Well, most of the time. If the cop feels like it, they can make you have a very bad time. https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7645474002 “An Arkansas woman says she had no safe place to pull over in July 2020 when a state trooper tried to stop her for speeding, so she turned on her hazard lights and slowed down. Moments later, the officer rammed her vehicle, causing it to flip over and injuring the woman”

Remove "most of the time". This narrative that police are boogeymen who will subject you to their emotional whims is so overplayed its not even funny any more. There may be 1 in 100 truly awful police men and women out there, just as their are truly awful people in every known profession. People share a viral, highly edited video on tiktok to make themselves look like the victim only for the entire world to pile on and go "wow yep police bad".

There's a lot that could be improved in our judicial system, but you're not going to identify the areas that need improvement by sharing anecdotes of "Well this one time in Arkansas..."

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#114

Post by sjmulder »

bmitc wrote: post #2

I remain confused on how these cars are allowed on the road. Did they pass a driver's license check? Who's responsible? Who gets the ticket? In this instance, you can see that the car performed a dangerous maneuver by running from the cops, with its lights still off, and crossing an intersection, which is then spun by the company as finding a "safer" spot to pull over at. Even though, it found a spot essentially iden…

What worries me a little bit is how this can shift blame further on other (more vulnerable) road users once such vehicles become more common, solidifying even stronger the notion that roads are for motor vehicles and for motor vehicles alone.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#115

Post by coldcode »

So what would happen if the passenger is arrested by the police for being in a car that refused to stop? I wonder what legal principle could be used to justify this. Involuntary failure to stop? Are there any laws about driverless vehicles and who is responsible for problems?

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#116

Post by KptMarchewa »

flohofwoe wrote: post #95
logifail wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did they pass a driver's license check? Thought experiment: imagine a particular self-driving algo were to do something that would warrant a human driver getting their driving licence suspended, would that mean all the cars with that same algo would be simultanously suspended, or just that one car?

That's easy and obvious: The whole fleet is "grounded" (or at least the self-driving feature disabled) until the bug has been identified and fixed. If you ask me, only a single car misbehaving is actually much more alarming than if the bug manifests in all cars of that type.

>If you ask me, only a single car misbehaving is actually much more alarming than if the bug manifests in all cars of that type.

It's not if it's hardware failure.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#117

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #109
IgorPartola wrote: post #88

Being used to riding motorcycles in the US, why are headlights not always on for all vehicles at this point? LED bulbs last a very long time and there is little reason to not have them on during the day. I know, it’s much more fun to anthropomorphize the car in this case, but the simple solution is to just hard wire them.

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#118

Post by Kye »

xadhominemx wrote: post #101
jwr wrote: post #72

I am really worried by the fact that I am the unwilling tester in the Great Driverless Car Experiment. Tradition has it that when you load-test a new bridge, you put the architect underneath. I feel like this, except I didn't design those driverless cars, somebody else did. Being an experienced software engineer, my trust in the software in these cars is pretty low. And yet they are testing them on me, because I can…

We are all unwilling testers of every new teenage driver who hits the road.

A teenager is worried about: getting killed, killing someone else, hurting someone, wrecking their parents' car, losing their permit. I don't trust engineers working on the models that drive these cars to teach a computer the difference between a human and an open road. A teenager can discern these with no effort. I trust a teenager to care about not hitting me and try their best, and to choose a ditch over hitting someone when the decision time comes.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#119

Post by marcellus23 »

MathCodeLove wrote: post #113
sseagull wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, most of the time. If the cop feels like it, they can make you have a very bad time. https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/7645474002 “An Arkansas woman says she had no safe place to pull over in July 2020 when a state trooper tried to stop her for speeding, so she turned on her hazard lights and slowed down. Moments later, the officer rammed her vehicle, causing it to flip over and injuring the woman”

Remove "most of the time". This narrative that police are boogeymen who will subject you to their emotional whims is so overplayed its not even funny any more. There may be 1 in 100 truly awful police men and women out there, just as their are truly awful people in every known profession. People share a viral, highly edited video on tiktok to make themselves look like the victim only for the entire world to pile on a…

I suggest watching some videos of how police behaved during the protests a couple years ago. The Verge had an excellent compilation. It’s hardly one or two bad actors. My personal favorite was the police pulling parents out of a vehicle and beating them while their children watched — the car was just trying to turn around and get out of the protest area safely.

Your argument might be more valid if these “bad apples” faced appropriate punishment, but they never do.

Re: San Francisco cops pull over a Cruise driverless car for no lights on

#120

Post by dgfitz »

Kye wrote: post #118
xadhominemx wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are all unwilling testers of every new teenage driver who hits the road.

A teenager is worried about: getting killed, killing someone else, hurting someone, wrecking their parents' car, losing their permit. I don't trust engineers working on the models that drive these cars to teach a computer the difference between a human and an open road. A teenager can discern these with no effort. I trust a teenager to care about not hitting me and try their best, and to choose a ditch over hitting s…

*A teenager is worried about only about themselves and their immediate happiness
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