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New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

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Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#171

Post by imtringued »

ris wrote: post #70
pfisherman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Intellectual property frankly makes no sense if you don’t worship money. Patents incentivize inventors to publicly disclose how their inventions work. They publicly disclose how their invention works and in exchange are given exclusive rights to it for a limited period of time. This is predicated on the idea that in the absence of such a system, inventors have strong incentives to not disclose how their inventions…

Except that's not how patents are used in the 21st century. Patents are generally written to be as broad in scope as possible while disclosing as little as possible information on how to get said invention to work (if the grantee has actually figured out that part at all). Registering and successfully defending a patent is extremely expensive and patent lawsuits are usually won by the party with the most legal resour…

It's like we are fighting an invisible economic war. The question is, why is it worth throwing other people under the bus? Somehow everyone is convinced that it is worth it.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#172

Post by imtringued »

heavyset_go wrote: post #100
pzduniak wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't the Bloomberg story debunked?

"Debunked" as in no conclusive evidence was confirmed by 3rd parties. It could just as equally mean that investigators might not have found the needle they're looking for in the supply chain haystack.

Debunked in the sense that the bloomberg article is a work of fiction. The authors wrote a "fascinating" story that has nothing to do with the real world. They assume backdoored resistors and other nonsense to make it impossible to verify their story akin to Russel's teapot.

Reality is boring. There have been supply chain attacks that installed malicious firmware or replaced pin compatible chips. That's not surprising, that's boring and old news.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#173

Post by trasz »

gibs0ns wrote: post #117
noobermin wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm wary for Taiwan what does that have to do at all with this story??? This sort of sentiment reminds me of those Americans who want to stop drinking Vodka over the invasion of Ukraine.

Surely there are people of all different nationalities that share that thought? Seems weird to make it only about Americans.

It’s mostly Americans, because this opinion has no basis in facts. China hasn’t invaded anyone in decades, repeatedly says it won’t, and even written this down in their constitution.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#174

Post by trasz »

starchild_3001 wrote: post #130
noobermin wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm wary for Taiwan what does that have to do at all with this story??? This sort of sentiment reminds me of those Americans who want to stop drinking Vodka over the invasion of Ukraine.

If you're reading a tech news coming out of China, and aren't thinking about politics, you're doing something wrong. Every tech company in China is in part owned or supported by the chinese government. Hard to talk about "independent tech". They're more like "national tech". Today and the next 50 years in tech is being defined by the competition between the two superpowers. Their national objectives differ vastly. Ch…

>Every tech company in China is in part owned or supported by the chinese government.

So it’s exactly like the US.

>China: aiming to invade Taiwan

China hasn’t invaded anyone for decades. US had.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#175

Post by trasz »

chillacy wrote: post #148
emodendroket wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do not think a Taiwan invasion is imminent, at least short of a huge provocation.

For numbers, Metaculus collectively puts China annexing Taiwan by 2050 at around 50%: https://www.metaculus.com/questions/5320/chinese-annexation-... 30 years is a long time for forecasting though, afaik forecasting accuracy in tournaments drops as a function of time.

No post body was provided.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#176

Post by trasz »

kova12 wrote: post #115
noobermin wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm wary for Taiwan what does that have to do at all with this story??? This sort of sentiment reminds me of those Americans who want to stop drinking Vodka over the invasion of Ukraine.

I think what he's trying to say is that China wants to have GPU production ready before it happens, so that they are not left without technology once the sanctions kick in

No post body was provided.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#177

Post by spacemanmatt »

poulpy123 wrote: post #164
simne wrote: post #110

It smells, China systematically prepare to seize Taiwan, so will got extremely hard sanctions, and they create their own CPUs, GPUs.

I don't get why they would be sanctioned while the US were not sanctioned for their invasion of Iraq, and Saudi Arabia isn't sanctioned for the war on Yemen

I have said before that America harbors war criminals.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#178

Post by _kbh_ »

imtringued wrote: post #170
_kbh_ wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t entirely true. The software that a GPU supports (DX version, etc) is directly tied to certain specifics about the hardware. Have a look at the “Shader model comparisons” to see an example of this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Level_Shader_Language

Are there any patents blocking GPUs from implementing all features of SPIR-V?

Probably not as long as you don't trample any implementation specific patents. But the point was more about how it is much harder than just porting an old design to a newer process node to get good performance in modern games, modern hardware is fundamentally different than hardware of even the Geforce 7000 series.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#179

Post by hyperman1 »

pfisherman wrote: post #85
randomhodler84 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source licensing incentivizes inventors to release their creations to the world to benefit humanity. Their copyright is protected and depending on the license that picked can control redistribution. Their work is protected against people passing their work off as their own, which is the intention of the patent idea. Patents do nothing like this, in fact, they cause inventors to invent around “protected ideas”. T…

> Patents do not achieve their stated goal. This assertion is being made without evidence. Can you point to any modern technologically advanced civilizations / nations that do not have something like a patent system? How did those without well developed legal frameworks for intellectual property perform over time relative to others in measures of scientific output and economic development? What is the alternative? Wo…

The USA is a great counter example. In the 19th century it took all kinds of european inventions, did very bad IP enforcement, and built out based on rampant IP theft. The IP relation between China and USA today is basically the relation between the USA and Europe then.

There is also Hollywood, the place where Edison could not get his film patents enforced, so every film maker ran to there. Rampant patent infringement made it great.

Or inside Europe, there were cities complaining how the guild IP rules were not enforced on farms. People bought e.g. cheap low quality pots and pans on the farms, with no frivolities or no correct marks, and no money was paid to the guilds. For shame! This was without patents, with guilds being very protective of their knowledge, and inventions still spread without much trouble.

Necessity is generally the mother of invention. Patents just slow things down to protect the established players.

Re: New Chinese GPU Maker Moore Threads Unveils the MTT S60 GPU

#180

Post by ksec »

marcan_42 wrote: post #138
ksec wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how you define stolen in this context. It uses GPU IP from IMG commonly known as PowerVR, the same technology powering current Apple's GPU and some Mediatek SoC. And IMG the company is now wholly owned by Chinese Private Equity Fund. The fund acquired IMG when Apple claimed to no longer be using any of their IP and caused their market valuation to drop by more than 70%.

Apple GPUs have little to no IMG technology left. You can tell there is some remaining influence in the design, but Apple's is much better and cleaner and what IMG's GPUs should have been .

>Apple GPUs have little to no IMG technology left

They still uses PVRTC and are still licensing and paying IMG royalty. Surely if there were little to no IMG tech left Apple could have simply stopped paying them and dont renew the contract. They are not paying substantially less royalty than they were previously either.

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