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I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

lof.flounder.online

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Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#111

Post by b112 »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #93
Freak_NL wrote: post #4

As a parent (of a kid fortunately nowhere near this age) I get this, but I also don't see a way out. You don't want your kid to be that kid who doesn't have a smartphone when all of their peers do. Being socially excluded was the bane of my life in school, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be a contributing factor to my child becoming a pariah. I do wish that more parents (and society in general) would be more sensi…

>Being socially excluded was the bane of my life in school, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be a contributing factor to my child becoming a pariah. As someone who had similar experiences, thanks for letting your children be in control of at least some part of their lives. You're doing the good thing.

While this may backfire, I would say installing tracking software on the phone, then doing many subtle things which gives this away, would be an awesome learning experience.

"Creepy?! What? Google, Facebook, etc do it. What's wrong?"

I feel like hacking the phones of parliamentarians, then setting up a website showing their daily activities, would be excellent.

Double effective if it just keeps happening, even when you say you'll stop, no matter how often they reset or reconfigure the phone.

"What?! Everyone else does it!"

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#112

Post by em-bee »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #57
worthless-trash wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence could he give without doxing himself ?

He doesn't need to prove his anecdote but prove that big tech is bad. The whole "I got recommended something that was actually related to me so I'm avoid big tech for the safety of my children" implies that him being recommended something that was actually related to him was dangerous. This is almost the same as "I was talking to someone about wanting to buy a gaming PC then I saw ads for gaming PC. They must be list…

i think the point was that it is scary to know that you are getting stuff recommended based on location. that means that you can assume that more recommendations are from nearby which implicitly reveals the location of the people in the videos.

having my kids be seen 100 random viewers world wide is one thing, having the same video shared with all my neighbors is quite another.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#113

Post by rglullis »

2000UltraDeluxe wrote: post #75
lrvick wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a teacher could not figure out how to communicate with a kid without routing those communications through Facebook servers, I would kindly teach them how e-mail, matrix, or other neutral internet protocols work. Honestly -most- of the time I tell people I don't have a phone they say something like "That is super cool, I wish I could do that. My phone has ruined my life. How would you prefer we keep in touch since…

It's not about figuring out how to do it in other ways that doesn't include Facebook servers. It's just that all the pupils are already on those platforms, as are the teachers, and asking everyone to switch to other platforms is simply inconvenient. Most people simply don't care enough, and that includes most teenagers. People want convenience, and as little interference as possible. I'm not saying it's a good thing;…

Still, it is not an either/or situation. If teachers want to use WhatsApp for their personal communications, fine by me. What parents are perfectly entitled to do is to go to the school board and say "*We don't want to use WhatsApp. There needs to be a proper messaging platform for school communication"

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#114

Post by nonrandomstring »

Well done. Your children will definitely thank you for reasons not even apparent today. Teaching children about technology, rather than letting them be taught by technology is the key here.

This is the new tobacco. As research accumulates on detrimental effects (individual cognitive impact and societal damage) it's going to get easier to do the right thing for your children. It's hard right now in 2022, as seen in the many hostile comments from those who've made other life choices and feel obliged to defend them.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#115

Post by em-bee »

em500 wrote: post #86
psiops wrote: post #46

My oldest just got her first smartphone at 11. But it comes with rules. Screentime is limited. The phone does not go up to her room, it stays downstairs. She's allowed to take it out with her only when that makes sense for keeping in touch. No mobile internet (yet). We have open and frank talks about the dangerous sides of the internet and social media. And at 11, she can understand those warnings.

If you disable data altogether (wifi, not just mobile), you don't really need any screentime limits or other rules such as where she is allowed to use it. She'll very quickly self-limit the amount of time she spends on it. Keeping in touch works fine with voice and sms. As we all know., the internet is an infinite time sink.

it depends on personality. i spend more time on the internet if access is limited because i want to make the most of it, whereas if i have unlimited access it is much easier to take a break, because i can get back any time.

self-discipline is easier to learn if i am in control, not when it is forced on me. the key is to find other more interesting things to do

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#116

Post by lrvick »

lelanthran wrote: post #67
lrvick wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent most of my childhood straight-edge and was thus cast out by peers for not joining them in their nonstop sex, alcohol, and drug addictions, and not being interested in sports. Instead I made fast friends with the other outcasts like me. The computer nerds, the anime nerds, the hobbyists, the actors, the musicians, the magicians, and the artists. People that spent life chasing their imagination and not worrying…

> I spent most of my childhood straight-edge and was thus cast out by peers for not joining them in their nonstop sex, alcohol, and drug addictions, and not being interested in sports. That's a false dichotomy - you posit that those things are the only alternatives, which is incorrect. I never did non-stop sex, drugs and alcohol (and ignored sports) in school, and yet I was part of a number of different social groupi…

I am sure there are endless counter-examples to my point, which helps make it stronger if anything.

Removing any one popular activity from the life of a child be it smartphones, or tobacco, is likely to exclude them from some social groups, and perhaps make them more likely to land in others.

If anything the take-away here is that the idea that a kid not having a smartphone will handicap them in life is nonsense. There are so so many paths to success in this world, though sometimes traveling a different path than the majority can have some advantages.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#117

Post by dunefox »

jedberg wrote: post #26
Freak_NL wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that invading their privacy means breaking their trust at an age where a large part of their emotional and social development all but requires it. It's a good way to ensure that they won't come to you with any delicate topics later on, like questions and concerns about drugs, sex, or shady behaviour of peers — you know, the part where you want to be that trustworthy parent that they can talk to, always.…

> Keep in mind that invading their privacy means breaking their trust at an age where a large part of their emotional and social development all but requires it. That's why I was careful to say that the default would be to trust them, but only after they show they can't handle it will they be monitored, but in a way they are fully aware of and we would review the logs together. But my point was I hope I never have to…

Sniffing their traffic is the opposite of trust. Either you trust them or you don't and monitor their behaviour.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#118

Post by 2000UltraDeluxe »

rglullis wrote: post #113
2000UltraDeluxe wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about figuring out how to do it in other ways that doesn't include Facebook servers. It's just that all the pupils are already on those platforms, as are the teachers, and asking everyone to switch to other platforms is simply inconvenient. Most people simply don't care enough, and that includes most teenagers. People want convenience, and as little interference as possible. I'm not saying it's a good thing;…

Still, it is not an either/or situation. If teachers want to use WhatsApp for their personal communications, fine by me. What parents are perfectly entitled to do is to go to the school board and say "*We don't want to use WhatsApp. There needs to be a proper messaging platform for school communication"

There is one. It's just crap and both teachers and pupils avoid it when they can. Government IT is funny that way.

Not to mention the fact that if I somehow managed to get them to ditch Whatsapp, I would be held responsible for it. I'd like to keep my business running rather than be known as the local tosser -- being famous for being a technophobe won't attract new customers. And yes, that's what being against Big Tech makes you these days; most people see you as paranoid, or in the best case, as someone who fights windmills.

And all that assumes other kids wouldn't take it out on mine because they're frustrated about her dad forcing everyone over to some crappy app instead of whatsapp.

As another sibling mentioned, this needs to be addressed at a political level. And yes, I've contacted elected representatives about it. Most of those used Office 365 or G suite for receiving emails.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#120

Post by Certhas »

aa-jv wrote: post #35

The answer to any technology-oriented problem is better communication . I had problems with my kids use of social media - until I involved myself in it with them, so that I could see the things they were learning and enjoying. And then, having established the reality of their world, I communicated with them about my concerns - the tracking, the groupthink, the dangers of online interactions with strangers. Most impor…

> The answer to any technology-oriented problem is better communication.

I agree with this for the question of what to do in the concrete situation of handling your kids. In a larger sense though the answer to technology can be also regulation and laws.

To keep kids safe today we have an infinitude of regulations specifying how kids toys, stairways, etc... are to be built. Some of this is over the top, but it would also be insane to expect parents to inspect the precise chemical composition of every toy their kid gets, and research how toxic it might be.

We need to build a societal agreement that data gathered in the name of targeting advertisment is toxic, and ban it. No "consent opt-in/opt-out" either, just a ban. This will obviously take time to get right. And it would make Google poorer so it will be hard to get this done. Think environmental regulations that started with social movements in the 60s/70s and are strong enough to do their job only decades later.

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