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FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

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Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#101

Post by eecc »

454544545 wrote: post #97
_Nat_ wrote: post #63

> "I can tell you that is not protocol. The problem is there are two justice systems: 1 for poor people and minorities and 1 for rich people and generally white people. You see it when you are one of the few black agents. Everyone is not equal." Was " Tarek Abou-Khatwa " not a minority? [The surname " Abou " appears to be most commonly associated with either Niger or Egypt]( https://forebears.io/surnames/abou ), whil…

Quoted post unavailable.

Not necessarily, that's just prejudice. Literally.

The sad reality is that poor people and their neighborhoods are more closely scrutinized, small conduct violations are pursued with unjustifiable zeal and harmless behaviors are outright criminalized to facilitate targeting.

It's the definition of "systematic racism", and you - it pains me to say - are the target audience of those that institutionalize it.

:/

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#102

Post by jollybean »

? The FBI have information about the people they are nabbing and already have a risk profile.

If the people the are grabbing have zero history of violence, no gun ownership, no gang association, there's no reason to smash down the door.

Even judging by neighbourhood:

It's probably unfair but my bet is diplomats don't generally get into shootouts with the cops.

They could probably safely do the same in middle class neighbourhoods as well.

It's not a nice statement about equity, rather my belief that the 'risk' to police is probably entirely from specific kinds of problem areas which are probably poor.

If you look at a map of violent crime in cities, the delineations are pretty clear.

Some neighbourhoods have almost zero violent crime, two blocks down, it's Caracas.

'Zip Code' profiling might actually be just, but I don't see why they could not do it on a case to case basis.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#103

Post by jollybean »

88840-8855 wrote: post #10

People with money and power have it better. Yes, clear, thanks for yet another confirmation. This is why I could never enjoy NYC. As a normal middle class dude you always feel everywhere that you are a nothing: no fame/no power/no money = people are rude, aggressive, hostile to you. I never felt that in London, which is a quite comparable city to NYC. I felt welcome in most places despite not being rich or famous.

NYC as assertive, that's just the way it is. And most rich and famous people are not identifiable as such.

This is a non-story. If you don't have gang relations, no criminal record, no violence, no gun ownership ... there's no reason for the cops to bang down the door.

That said, I think cops are too aggressive in general about this.

That also said - the cops do have a policy of 'bang down the door' because I think it's actually safer for the cops (I loathe to find that data sorry).

So, like everything, it's complicated.

Definitely policing, like everything else has to be 1) 'smart' i.e. materially proportional, use force where required and 2) we have to accept at least some wiggle room. No matter what, the cops will be wrong some time.

So, like everything, we have to be smart about it.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#104

Post by Retric »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #96
lordnacho wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a common refrain that people get rich by providing value to others, and I used to think that way as well. Unfortunately I don't think it really stands scrutiny. First of all, there's no proper idea of what value is. It's a super deep conversation so I'll just leave that headline for now. Second, even without a clear explanation of what value is, we can distinguish between value created and value captured. You ca…

Value is a self defining concept. It's what an individual want. The value of a society is the weighted sum of values based on individual power. Amazon is creating a lot of small value to a lot of people by delivering goods next day. People on wall street are creating a lot of value for wealthy and powerful people. An engineer can automate a lot of value creation that was previously done by a large number of people, a…

Value isn’t what people want. People want drinking water more than just about anything else, but that’s cheap to provide so the cost stays low. Gold on the other hand is rarely something people consider or want, but it’s rare therefore it has high material value.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#105

Post by ajsnigrutin »

croes wrote: post #67
watwut wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very same people who are pointing out this were complaining about aggressive police tactic for years. It is not instead.

So why not use the same tactics for both, rich and poor? Or is violence reserved for poorer people?

Usually some rich old guy won't shoot at cops, when they come knocking at the door. Those people use lawyers, not guns.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#106

Post by pooper »

tomohawk wrote: post #94

What's actually disturbing is that more than 90% of the time this would be a "no knock" raid with paramiliterized police smashinng down the door, tossing in flash-bang grenades - the works. No knock should be reserved for extreme situations, not the norm.

> No knock should be reserved for extreme situations, not the norm.

At this point, I'd say no knock should be unlawful.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#107

Post by bongoman37 »

bagels wrote: post #70
alephnan wrote: post #11

Well if the suspect was wrongly accused, they'd have to reimburse the damages. Does the FBI have a budget for such things? Does it involve extra paperwork if it passes a certain threshold? Is the issue here profiling of the demographic or the risk ( in terms of cost ).

I don't think that is true that the government must reimburse for damages. They can literally blow your house up and not pay for it. https://www.npr.org/2019/10/30/774788611/police-owe-nothing- ...

No post body was provided.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#108

Post by mcv »

ncmncm wrote: post #9

Maybe we should be asking why they are so eager to break down other people's doors, instead of harassing them for not breaking down just this one.

A lawyer in the article asks that very question. Many of their clients have had their front door bashed in without the FBI ever considering the aesthetics of that. If the FBI is concerned about such aesthetics, maybe it should extend that concern to all houses, and not just those in rich neighbourhoods.

I believe there's evidence that property damage in a neighbourhood can lead to more crime ("broken windows"), so avoiding visible property damage in vulnerable neighbourhoods actually sounds like a good idea.

At the same time, for a sense of justice and equality, it can also be important for people to see that rich people are held accountable for their crimes just like poor people are. So maybe they should only bash in doors in rich neighbourhoods and not in poor neighbourhoods.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#109

Post by aaron695 »

croes wrote: post #67
watwut wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very same people who are pointing out this were complaining about aggressive police tactic for years. It is not instead.

So why not use the same tactics for both, rich and poor? Or is violence reserved for poorer people?

No post body was provided.

Re: FBI Didn't Knock Down a Suspect's Door Because 'It Was an Affluent Neighborhood'

#110

Post by pennaMan »

imgabe wrote: post #14
ALittleLight wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there many neighborhoods packed with unconnected rich folks?

Not in the DC area, but in plenty of other cities sure. It's not that they're particularly rich, as far as rich people go, it's that the neighbor is like, the chief of staff for the Senator who's in charge of the committee that sets the FBI's budget. Imagine you're a low to mid level employee of a company, and you go do something that makes all of the CEO's friends, business partners, and investors pissed off at him.…

A bit unsetteling how institutionalized corruption is talked about so casually.
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