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I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

lof.flounder.online

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Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#21

Post by hans1729 »

jaspax wrote: post #13
Freak_NL wrote: post #4

As a parent (of a kid fortunately nowhere near this age) I get this, but I also don't see a way out. You don't want your kid to be that kid who doesn't have a smartphone when all of their peers do. Being socially excluded was the bane of my life in school, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be a contributing factor to my child becoming a pariah. I do wish that more parents (and society in general) would be more sensi…

> You don't want your kid to be that kid who doesn't have a smartphone Why not? If you think that smartphone usage is harmful to your child, then you absolutely are justified in letting them be "that kid". Being moderately socially constrained is actually a perfectly fine thing if the alternative is worse. > Being socially excluded was the bane of my life in school, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be a contributin…

>Why not?

Because it sets them on a track of social disconnect and isolation. No therapist in their right mind would support that path.

The adequate response is culture. Teach your children how to cultivate their own attention. Teach them about the way dopamine works. If you can't, you don't even know what you're talking about yourself. Creating social outlaws never, ever ever ever achieves the intended goal. The opposite is the case, you're creating damage in areas that you apparently don't even realize, probably because you project your personality model and own experiences onto a kid that simply doesn't grow up in the world that you became neuroplastic in.

> Once you made your decision, bite the bullet and accept the costs

...Or be open to rethink your decision?! That's just bad intellectual culture. It's perfectly fine to change your mind about something that you can't fully understand. And you can't fully understand this, because you can't see the world through the eyes of a now-12-year-old. Everyone tries to do the best for their kids, but almost no one knows what is the best for their kids. Setting them on a path to isolation and lack of connect certainly isn't the way, they'll never, ever, fully recover from it.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#22

Post by hooby »

You might want to teach your kids about the dangers of social media, and how they can protect themselves - rather than completely forbidding them from gaining any experience and thus leaving them completely vulnerable for when they they are finally old enough to buy their own smart phone.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#23

Post by raverbashing »

jaspax wrote: post #13
Freak_NL wrote: post #4

As a parent (of a kid fortunately nowhere near this age) I get this, but I also don't see a way out. You don't want your kid to be that kid who doesn't have a smartphone when all of their peers do. Being socially excluded was the bane of my life in school, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be a contributing factor to my child becoming a pariah. I do wish that more parents (and society in general) would be more sensi…

> You don't want your kid to be that kid who doesn't have a smartphone Why not? If you think that smartphone usage is harmful to your child, then you absolutely are justified in letting them be "that kid". Being moderately socially constrained is actually a perfectly fine thing if the alternative is worse. > Being socially excluded was the bane of my life in school, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be a contributin…

"Smartphones are harmful" are the new "videogames cause violence" (a bit justifiable, but blown out of proportion)

And on average most people will use it, so a kid that can use better than it is already on top of the pack

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#24

Post by bjarneh »

jedberg wrote: post #5

Seems like a bit of an overreaction. My kids are just a few years younger than OP's, but I'm not going to cut them off. I will teach them the dangers of being online and will force the phones to use a VPN through our house with PiHole installed. I may or may not go as far as putting a custom cert on the phone so I can monitor all the traffic -- that will depend on if I catch them violating my trust. My default stance…

> I may or may not go as far as putting a custom cert on the phone so I can monitor all the traffic -- that will depend on if I catch them violating my trust.

You are going to spy on you kids if they violate your trust, what does it take to violate your trust; visit a website that you don't like? How will your kids ever trust you again, if they find out you're spying on them for possible trust-violations?

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#25

Post by lynguist »

During the Facebook hearing, they said that its internal data shows that Facebook is most harmful for 14 year old girls. I believe that if you can somehow shield your daughter of that age from social media, she will be fine.

I had a no display rule for our toddler but during my absence, her mother introduced her to the iPad, and now she watches YouTube on it whenever I’m not around. I know that the American Pediatric Association recommends limiting screen time to 1hr a day, which I also agree with. I don’t know yet how to proceed once she gets older. I think I want to teach her programming and I want to disallow social media. Already now I disallowed her watching Russian videos on YouTube and she doesn’t watch them any more because I said to her that I don’t like those videos.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#26

Post by jedberg »

Freak_NL wrote: post #12
jedberg wrote: post #5

Seems like a bit of an overreaction. My kids are just a few years younger than OP's, but I'm not going to cut them off. I will teach them the dangers of being online and will force the phones to use a VPN through our house with PiHole installed. I may or may not go as far as putting a custom cert on the phone so I can monitor all the traffic -- that will depend on if I catch them violating my trust. My default stance…

Keep in mind that invading their privacy means breaking their trust at an age where a large part of their emotional and social development all but requires it. It's a good way to ensure that they won't come to you with any delicate topics later on, like questions and concerns about drugs, sex, or shady behaviour of peers — you know, the part where you want to be that trustworthy parent that they can talk to, always.…

> Keep in mind that invading their privacy means breaking their trust at an age where a large part of their emotional and social development all but requires it.

That's why I was careful to say that the default would be to trust them, but only after they show they can't handle it will they be monitored, but in a way they are fully aware of and we would review the logs together. But my point was I hope I never have to get that far -- that I can just teach them to be safe and leave it at that.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#27

Post by soco »

jedberg wrote: post #5

Seems like a bit of an overreaction. My kids are just a few years younger than OP's, but I'm not going to cut them off. I will teach them the dangers of being online and will force the phones to use a VPN through our house with PiHole installed. I may or may not go as far as putting a custom cert on the phone so I can monitor all the traffic -- that will depend on if I catch them violating my trust. My default stance…

Back then when kid was in that age I solved the dilemma by giving her a feature phone (yeah they were still around) and the computer traffic was monitored by the antivirus parental control. Yes she knew about all this and didn't mind. I never needed to step in.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#28

Post by jedberg »

bjarneh wrote: post #24
jedberg wrote: post #5

Seems like a bit of an overreaction. My kids are just a few years younger than OP's, but I'm not going to cut them off. I will teach them the dangers of being online and will force the phones to use a VPN through our house with PiHole installed. I may or may not go as far as putting a custom cert on the phone so I can monitor all the traffic -- that will depend on if I catch them violating my trust. My default stance…

> I may or may not go as far as putting a custom cert on the phone so I can monitor all the traffic -- that will depend on if I catch them violating my trust. You are going to spy on you kids if they violate your trust, what does it take to violate your trust; visit a website that you don't like? How will your kids ever trust you again, if they find out you're spying on them for possible trust-violations?

I made it clear that I would not be spying on them -- that they would have full access to the monitoring and we would review it together.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#29

Post by amelius »

Freak_NL wrote: post #4

As a parent (of a kid fortunately nowhere near this age) I get this, but I also don't see a way out. You don't want your kid to be that kid who doesn't have a smartphone when all of their peers do. Being socially excluded was the bane of my life in school, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be a contributing factor to my child becoming a pariah. I do wish that more parents (and society in general) would be more sensi…

Show them movies and TV-shows from the 80s and 90s, and show them that kids and grownups were quite happy despite having no smartphones.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#30

Post by soco »

bjarneh wrote: post #24
jedberg wrote: post #5

Seems like a bit of an overreaction. My kids are just a few years younger than OP's, but I'm not going to cut them off. I will teach them the dangers of being online and will force the phones to use a VPN through our house with PiHole installed. I may or may not go as far as putting a custom cert on the phone so I can monitor all the traffic -- that will depend on if I catch them violating my trust. My default stance…

> I may or may not go as far as putting a custom cert on the phone so I can monitor all the traffic -- that will depend on if I catch them violating my trust. You are going to spy on you kids if they violate your trust, what does it take to violate your trust; visit a website that you don't like? How will your kids ever trust you again, if they find out you're spying on them for possible trust-violations?

You can land in shady internet places very well also unwillingly, so it's less about "trust" and more about plain "protection". And the OP made it clear it's not a covert operation, the kids know it's the rule of the game.
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