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ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

thorconpower.com

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Re: ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

#91

Post by sofixa »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #74
jupp0r wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope we will, the problem currently is that this is not competitive compared to just burning natural gas. This is because the externalities related to global warming are not accounted for when the market determines the price of gas. Electricity will be more expensive either way and this really hasn’t sunk in yet. Were these costs accounted for, nuclear would be quite competitively priced, even with newer more moder…

> I hope we will, the problem currently is that this is not competitive compared to just burning natural gas. [Citation required] Grid-scale battery systems have fallen more than 70% since 2015. > nuclear would be quite competitively priced Nuclear is one of the most expensive and keeps getting more expensive; it's not competing against natural gas. It's competing against wind and solar, the two cheapest forms of gen…

> Grid-scale battery systems have fallen more than 70% since 2015.

Then why are there checks notes 0 deployments ? Battery costs are exploding currently due to the hikes in prices of lithium, nickel and cobalt. Battery demand outstrips supply by far, and batteries are needed elsewhere.

> It's competing against wind and solar, the two cheapest forms of generation.

They're complimentary, not competition. Solar+wind alone

Re: ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

#92

Post by bryanlarsen »

xyzzyz wrote: post #59
ncmncm wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will build out storage, and transmission lines, to "get us through the night".

Now do the math on how much storage would be needed, and how much would it cost, then show your work. Investors have done exactly that, which is why large scale storage is not happening yet.

I don't have to do the math. Solar+storage is being sold for 4 cents / kWh.

https://www.8minute.com/solar-projects/

Re: ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

#93

Post by noselasd »

powcontech wrote: post #14
waynecochran wrote: post #9

The fundamental flaw with wind power. Prosperous economies require reliable energy when needed, so power generation must be dispatchable on demand. Intermittent wind and solar source generators can temporarily supply low-cost electric power to the grid, but with a capacity factor of about 30%. This has created demand for redundant natural gas turbine generators to provide “back up” power when there is no wind or sun.…

While dams certainly store energy I wonder how many actually have flexibility to change their output by 80% of rated capacity or more on the same timescales that wind and solar output can vary. I imagine there are a lot of environmental restrictions to keep the river flowing, avoid dewatering habitat for fish and otherwise impacting the ecosystem, and also supplying water to downstream users like farms and cities. Ca…

you can switch turbines on and off , leading water to a turbine or a bypass in minutes

Re: ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

#94

Post by godelski »

ncmncm wrote: post #69
Sebb767 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why there's so much interest in nuclear when low-tech concentrated solar in the desert can get the job done and scaling it up (and ensuring it's 100% safe) isn't a matter of R&D but just basic manufacturing. Solar is dependent on the time of day (as the sister comments pointed out) and also on weather. Plus, you need to get the energy from the desert to wherever it's needed - this is non-trivial for densely populat…

Disinformation is not welcome here There is absolutely no need for deserts, or for single-use solar farms anywhere. Solar coexists with roofs, parking lots, reservoirs and canals, and pasture, improving each.

Disinformation: spreading false information while knowing the information is false.

Misinformation: spreading false information while believing the false information.

We should be mindful how we use these terms. I believe that the parent to your comment fully believes what they are saying. If you wish to act in good faith just provide a few sources or comments to counter their claims and move on. Consider the context in which they are speaking (the op mentions building in deserts and sending electricity elsewhere, hence the counter). But do not attack them and call them a bad actor until benefit of the doubt is removed. We can't have a functioning community unless we operate under good faith conditions, even to bad actors.

https://www.mediadefence.org/ereader/publications/introducto...

Re: ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

#95

Post by legulere »

jupp0r wrote: post #50
barathr wrote: post #42

I understand the interest in baseload generation but don't see why there's so much interest in nuclear when low-tech concentrated solar in the desert can get the job done and scaling it up (and ensuring it's 100% safe) isn't a matter of R&D but just basic manufacturing. It strikes me a lot of the nuclear focus is (understandable, if not justifiable) interest in cool new technology. Ironically, with concentrated solar…

To answer your question: the sun doesn’t shine at night, that’s why we can’t do solar only (without enough energy storage to get us through the night).

With concentrated solar you can store the heat and generate power in the night.

Re: ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

#96

Post by DennisP »

ocrow wrote: post #21
riffic wrote: post #5

this reads like a too good to be true pitch, so I have to ask, what's the catch? edit: these are breeder reactors? aren't there still waste and other concerns here?

On the design page they describe this as a molten salt reactor with dissolved nuclear fuel. One of the principle difficulties designing this type of reactor is the choice of materials used to conduct the liquid fuel, which is very hot, caustic, and radioactive. Steel and aluminum are out, as they are both chemically reactive at those temperatures. Other materials such as nickel alloys or certain ceramics may be possi…

One way that Thorcon deals with that is by replacing reactor cores every four years. Each module has two sealed "cans," with only one operating at a time, while the other cools down and then is replaced.

https://thorconpower.com/design/

This seems realistic since Oak Ridge ran their experimental molten salt reactor for five years (though only equivalent to 1.5 years at full power). They used an nickel alloy called Hastelloy-N, didn't see much corruption or neutron embrittlement, and did later work on improving resistance to embrittlement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten-Salt_Reactor_Experiment

Re: ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

#97

Post by NumberWangMan »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #89

8 minute is selling solar + storage for 4cents/kWh. Nuclear can't compete with that. https://www.8minute.com/solar-projects/

Doesn't the economics page on the ThorCon site say it'll produce at 3 cents / kWh?

*edit -- I'm a bit confused about 8-minute. Do you know what kind of storage they use? Seems neat but the website is a bit sparse on details.

Re: ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

#98

Post by Joeri »

barathr wrote: post #42

I understand the interest in baseload generation but don't see why there's so much interest in nuclear when low-tech concentrated solar in the desert can get the job done and scaling it up (and ensuring it's 100% safe) isn't a matter of R&D but just basic manufacturing. It strikes me a lot of the nuclear focus is (understandable, if not justifiable) interest in cool new technology. Ironically, with concentrated solar…

Unless someone can demonstrate that nuclear projects are preventing solar and wind deployments, why not do both?

Re: ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

#99

Post by NumberWangMan »

panick21_ wrote: post #52
NumberWangMan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as it being harder to let anyone allow you to build one, and to get the money -- they've already got a thing going with the government of Indonesia. It's been in the works for years, and it seems like things are still progressing[1] fine. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azzp0i0BnQ8 [video]

Yes, I know. I wrote about it my other comment. You can find full presentations that they are giving to different officials.

Ah, ok, I misunderstood. What did you mean by "gone a burner"?

Re: ThorCon: Cheap, reliable, CO2-free electric power

#100

Post by noduerme »

From their Design page, under the "Overview" subheader:

>> ThorCon is a molten salt fission reactor. Unlike all current nuclear reactors, the fuel is in liquid form. It can be moved around with a pump, and passively drained in the event of a casualty.

Casualty? Huh?

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