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Jewish problems

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101–110 of 203 posts

Re: Jewish problems

#101
post #96
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answering as someone Jewish. . . Jews don't assimilate (fully). In the Passover story, one of the things we note is that even living in Egypt for a long time, they didn't assimilate and they were disliked for it. Heck, how often do you hear people talking about other immigrants "not assimilating these days". For centuries, Jews even spoke a language other than the vernacular. We're a much more tolerant world today an…

Interesting. Muslim immigrants in the west have very similar problems: they don't assimilate, their loyalties are brought into question, they only eat "halal" food, etc.

How is that a similar? If anything, muslim populations in western countries are underrepresented in universities. Heck, some european countries are tipping 10% muslim population, yet if you go to a university campus good look finding a single muslim student. Problems are quite the opposite. There are special open doors on universities for immigrants to try to mitigate this problem, still it's not quite working so well. As for jewish being undesirable at universities, I find that just stupid. They appear to be among the most competent people, and appear to integrate just fine. Why would someone not want such people around at a production environment?

Re: Jewish problems

#102
post #21

Can someone please explain to me what the hell is the problem people have with Jews? The only thing I can tell is maybe they're disproportionately financially successful? I guess that's a problem...

As much as the Soviet Union tried to keep down Jews, they were also trying to promote people who fit a nationalist narrative. So it wasn't just antisemitism, it was also affirmative action for Russians (especially those of peasant descent).

And at the same time the Russians did much to preserve Yiddish (a Jewish language).

Re: Jewish problems

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been not liking jews for waaaay longer than a mere hundred or so years. Therefore, neither of those things can logically explain the bulk of anti-jewish sentiments.

Was not trying to explain the bulk- I just gave a few points that have been relevant for at least 100 years, especially in the US. Edit: HN has turned into Reddit. Ghostdownvoters, downvotes without explanation. Oy vey!

Downvoted for complaining about downvotes.

Re: Jewish problems

#104
post #63

Whereas in the US the reason that colleges use essay questions is because jews score too highly on the SATs. We can thank Harvard for this, as usual. Gladwell has an essay about this here: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/10/051010crat_atlar... I forget what Gladwell is copying from, but I know that there is an earlier article that goes into even more detail.

Jews had a hard time getting into some Ivy league schools for a stretch, but not colleges in the US in general, c.f. elsewhere on this page. What is it with you anyway? I found your comment earlier today about "the US does it too!" re the Dalai Lama almost odd enough to comment on but this is the second comment in a row where you found an angle to bash the US. Do you think every negative comment about a country is a…

I think the better question is why you're so worried about people criticizing the US?

Re: Jewish problems

#105
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they do. Assuming that OP hasn't been around for thousands of years himself, I could only point out modern day antisemitism which makes perfect sense. OP never asked for a complete history. However, if you're going to get to the root of things, you'd have to bring up religious prejudices passed down through the centuries as well as the origin of money lending and banking which undoubtedly cast Jews in a bad…

Firstly, I don't agree that modern day antisemitism makes sense because of those groups. But even if that were the case, you're making a pretty ridiculos argument: 1) Antisemitism has been around for a thousand years, before certain organizations existed. 2) Antisemitism is still around now. 3) Now it makes sense, because those organizations exist. Whereas it makes a lot more sense that these organizations are an exc…

The person you're responding to is saying that the zionist movement is a major reason for modern antisemitism. That antisemitism predates the zionist movement has no power to refute his point, unless the reasons for antisemitism have been static throughout history, which they haven't.

Re: Jewish problems

#106
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great comment and the length of it just goes to show how complex the issue is. If we were to add contemporary issues things would get even more complicated: Zionism and Israeli policies has created a lot of anger against 'Jews'. This has much less to do with ethnicity than historical anti-semitism, but the two get conflated which leaves everybody confused and talking past eachother. Add to the mix the fact that Jews…

Again this is more complicated than just that. The great bulk of responses and opposition to Zionist and Israeli policies comes from the Arab and Muslim world. Since this opposition is shared by many westerners, I think a lot of westerners assume that it is shared based on similar reasoning. Human rights, international law, national freedoms. But the reality is that a substantial portions is nationalist/religious/xen…

Extreme forms of Antisemitism existed long before even Muhammad was born. You are probably referring to the outcome of a half a century long conflict. Yes there is a lot of anti-Jew factor in the Muslim world(I am a Muslim my self).

But there is also a lot of anti-Muslim factor widely prevalent in the west too! Every bit of people on this earth have suffered with that problem. The Muslim world looks at these problems from their own view. Think of it this way, there was no signs of Israel in the Arab world around a century back, the settlements start. There are splinter groups. Slowly albeit steadily a vast majority of the native population was displaced to settle new set of people. A new nation is declared, backed by most powerful nations on earth. What was your country yesterday is not today and you are mercilessly kicked out. Now what sins did the natives do to deserve that? On top of loosing their lands, there is huge under development and humiliation since decades. How do you expect them to react?

To quote Ben Gurion himself:

I don't understand your optimism. Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been antisemitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So, it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipe us out.

- http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion

Tomorrow if some state like California is invaded by some one, existing citizens of the state thrown out. How will those people react. Will they laughingly walk out of their homes, stay in tents and welcome the invaders with Garlands? And business goes around normal?

There isn't a community on earth today which is different than any other community. People everywhere are just the same. When these sort of things happen friction is but natural but to take place.

All nations and their people on earth or same, Jews, Muslims and Christians. No one is different. Now there is also a clash of cultures. Others like their culture as much as you like yours. To assume everybody must follow your way of life is unacceptable to any community on earth.

I come from a nation(India) which hasn't attacked/invaded any country in thousands of years. We even got our freedom through complete non-violence. For thousands of years we absorbed other religions, cultures and languages and their people with open arms. Tolerance is not everybody's cup of tea.

Friction will remain, the way out is tolerance and respect for others.

Re: Jewish problems

#107
post #46
post #21

Can someone please explain to me what the hell is the problem people have with Jews? The only thing I can tell is maybe they're disproportionately financially successful? I guess that's a problem...

Answering as someone Jewish. . . Jews don't assimilate (fully). In the Passover story, one of the things we note is that even living in Egypt for a long time, they didn't assimilate and they were disliked for it. Heck, how often do you hear people talking about other immigrants "not assimilating these days". For centuries, Jews even spoke a language other than the vernacular. We're a much more tolerant world today an…

Great comment.

> Before cars, towns were organized for churches or shuls to be within walking distance which means segregation.

It's not gone. Some areas of North London are full of kosher delis, men with black hats and side-curls, etc, some don't have any.

Re: Jewish problems

#108
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the discrimination is reserved for Jewish population. That is unfortunate story of our crazy world. Pick up any country in the world and you can find a story very similar to Jewish story... For example, Armenins in Turkey in 1915-16 (and latter on). Or Albanians in Serbia. Romas (Gypsies) in Nazi Germany. Palestinians in Israel. Tutsis in Rwanda. Etc. etc. We just need to always fight against things lik…

"Palestinians in Israel" Well, the big questions of our time are: are the Palestinians actually oppressed? Who's oppressing them? Does finding out the truth even matter?

[deleted]

Re: Jewish problems

#109
post #46
post #21

Can someone please explain to me what the hell is the problem people have with Jews? The only thing I can tell is maybe they're disproportionately financially successful? I guess that's a problem...

Answering as someone Jewish. . . Jews don't assimilate (fully). In the Passover story, one of the things we note is that even living in Egypt for a long time, they didn't assimilate and they were disliked for it. Heck, how often do you hear people talking about other immigrants "not assimilating these days". For centuries, Jews even spoke a language other than the vernacular. We're a much more tolerant world today an…

Super comment, thank you very much. What about the Israeli/Palestinian issue? I find that tends to polarize people strongly as well.

Re: Jewish problems

#110
post #106
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again this is more complicated than just that. The great bulk of responses and opposition to Zionist and Israeli policies comes from the Arab and Muslim world. Since this opposition is shared by many westerners, I think a lot of westerners assume that it is shared based on similar reasoning. Human rights, international law, national freedoms. But the reality is that a substantial portions is nationalist/religious/xen…

Extreme forms of Antisemitism existed long before even Muhammad was born. You are probably referring to the outcome of a half a century long conflict. Yes there is a lot of anti-Jew factor in the Muslim world(I am a Muslim my self). But there is also a lot of anti-Muslim factor widely prevalent in the west too! Every bit of people on this earth have suffered with that problem. The Muslim world looks at these problems…

Like I said, I have no wish to justify Israeli policies and there are many genuine reasons to object to them. History I don't even think it's possible to justify.

I was commenting though on different types of objection though. Objections based on delusions, nationalism and religion. Jews absolutely do not have a monopoly over these. Anti-muslim sentiment in the Europe is largely xenophobia and in the US its mostly nationalism. These (as I'm pretty sure you agree by reading what you wrote).

But the scale and flavour of some of the delusions directed at Israel from what are in the Muslim world, non marginal sources are uncommonly fantastic. I participated in a Syrian-Israeli dialogue once where we answer each others' objections to peace. We found that the majority of Syrians believe that the stripes on Israel's flag represent the sea and the euphrates, Israel's ambition to conquer all of modern Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. They referenced a nonexistent map in the Israeli Parliament, nonexistent speeches by early leaders, etc. These were not hawks by any means. They doctors and engineers and teachers that wanted peace and were actively pursuing it. They basically wanted a guarantee that Israel will give up these ambitions. All fantasy.

There are some insane surveys from various countries (Egypt, most commonly) about what the average person believes.

Americans can be delusionaly racist and nationalistic to. But, you can't sell the idea that shark attacks were orchestrated by from Iran or anything like that.

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