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An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

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Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#541

Post by thisiscorrect »

ceejayoz wrote: post #398
thisiscorrect wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But it was also a fool's errand before omicron. Has there ever been a recorded instance of eliminating a respiratory infection before?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS#Containment > The World Health Organization declared severe acute respiratory syndrome contained on 5 July 2003. The containment was achieved through successful public health measures. In the following months, four SARS cases were reported in China between December 2003 and January 2004. > While SARS-CoV-1 probably persists as a potential zoonotic threat in its original animal reser…

From your first link: "While SARS-CoV-1 probably persists as a potential zoonotic threat in its original animal reservoir, human-to-human transmission of this virus may be considered eradicated because no human case has been documented since four minor, brief, subsequent outbreaks in 2004."

This is the same effect in play for SARS-CoV-2. It also persists in animals. It's a matter of time and chance before it reemerges.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#542

Post by mensetmanusman »

wyclif wrote: post #519
dan-robertson wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In lots of poorer parts of the world formula is marketed as being better than breast milk. In many developed countries adverts like these are banned but they used to be allowed. There were also problems with e.g. young children with well-to-do parents being given only canned food and getting scurvy. The theme was again about a supposed better-planned diet than what poorer people from less advanced times had to use.

Definitely true here in SE Asia and other parts of the developing world. In the Philippines for instance, you go to a supermarket and there are rows and rows of formula boxes and all you need to do is look at the packaging and advertising to see the message they're trying to convey: formula is for good-looking, light-skinned, smart, educated parents and only ignorant dark-skinned provincial poor people breastfeed bec…

America went through something similar about a century or two ago before birth control was prevalent.

Because breastfeeding mostly delays the return of fertility, formula popularity resulted in a huge spike of babies. (Ancient societies would often breastfeed for more than two years).

As society gathers more data on the huge health and IQ impact of breastfeeding, it will become the norm again as it is in the west (for the fewer mothers that do exist…).

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#543

Post by Anthony-G »

dayvid wrote: post #514

I also highly recommend reading this thread by Naomi Wu on her thoughts of the Shanghai lockdown: https://twitter.com/RealSexyCyborg/status/151273459548510617...

Thanks for that. For those who dislike Twitter, here are two alternative links:

https://nitter.net/RealSexyCyborg/status/1512734595485106179

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1512734595485106179.html

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#544

Post by kenneth »

huxflux wrote: post #434
School-Cotton wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese-made vaccines barely work.

That's bullshit though. It works, check the statistics.

It's not. Check the statistics in Hong Kong, where hardly anyone died of they were boosted with the BioNTech vaccine, vs almost all the deaths occurring in unvaccinated or Sinovac vaccinated people.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#546

Post by Lochleg »

ceejayoz wrote: post #479
Lochleg wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line is expected to become endemic. China may have to stomach the current variants. It's not that relevant, but the coronavirus family is always going to reappear as it stands. I hope they recognize when it's no longer the same virus or same threat. Scientists proved that even in the perfect quarantine of Antarctica, coronavirus can reappear after months. This and many other lessons don't seem to get much attent…

Yes, SARS #2 has significant differences, and at this point there’s no putting the genie back in the bottle. I’m just answering: > Has there ever been a recorded instance of eliminating a respiratory infection before? That answer being a resounding “yes, and our best example of doing so is even a coronavirus”.

I wasn't directly challenging your answer but the picture it painted. However, if scientists had to formally ask if SARS as a disease was eradicated or eliminated from the world, the answer would be no. I think the underlying question is whether China is on a fool's errand or not.

Officials helped SARS-1 along in doing what it may have done sooner or later without the (slight) intervention: disappear into the background then quickly become just another line that can't compete for hosts. This doesn't translate into a recipe for success. The end of SARS-1 was not necessarily an example where all the congratulations were warranted for defying the odds. The more relevant legacy is that epidemiologists acknowledged SARS already had an animal reservoir in bats, and the world was supposed to be preparing for its return to humans. That didn't amount to much of a guard at all, and governments were given carte blanche to get us out of the pandemic. As we now see in China, a government can always claim that its measures are necessary and they continue to save lives (and do no harm).

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#547

Post by JoshTko »

School-Cotton wrote: post #409
JoshTko wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lockdowns were extremely effective in preventing healthcare collapse in nearly all countries it was implemented. Countries that did not go into lockdown early on such as Sweden were seeing up to 15% death rated. Lockdowns allowed sufficient time for the development and distribution of effective vaccines. China unfortunately has not completed the latter step of wide distribution of an effective vaccine. Their healthca…

> Countries that did not go into lockdown early on such as Sweden were seeing up to 15% death rates. No they weren’t. Show your source.

https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+cases+sweden&oq=covid+...

Compare the case rates vs death rates in April 2020. Cases averaged around 500 and deaths are around 50-80.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#548

Post by Hnrobert42 »

djrogers wrote: post #394
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your insistence on evidence of starvation. Death from starvation generally requires 30 - 70 days without food, depending on starting weight, body fat, activity levels, etc. Shanghai has been under lockdown for 12 days. It is unlikely you will find any real evidence of starvation. More interesting to me are the claims that food is scarce, grocery orders are unreliable, the government has not provided suff…

>Death from starvation generally requires 30 - 70 days without food (Snip) > It is unlikely you will find any real evidence of starvation Whoa there - how’d you manage to move those goalposts so quickly? Starvation is a condition - death is not a required aspect of that condition. Starvation has long been considered inhumane, and a form of torture - it’s not OK all of a sudden just because you don’t have proof someon…

I think you misunderstood my point which was that @somewhereoutth was insisting on evidence of starvation. I was noting that it was too early to see the most obvious effect, namely death.

You may have misunderstood which side I was on because I started my post by saying I appreciated their insistence on evidence. I was just trying to be civil and assume positive intent.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#550

Post by School-Cotton »

JoshTko wrote: post #547
School-Cotton wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Countries that did not go into lockdown early on such as Sweden were seeing up to 15% death rates. No they weren’t. Show your source.

https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+cases+sweden&oq=covid+... Compare the case rates vs death rates in April 2020. Cases averaged around 500 and deaths are around 50-80.

That's CFR, which is meaningless.
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