I don't read too much of PG's recent work. Does he attack classism with the same vigor as he does the left?
Heresy
351–360 of 1001 posts
Re: Heresy
#352Can somebody list “heresies” which we are not allowed to say but they are ok? I cannot find a single one. But maybe I’m missing something.
You must be pretty asleep to not be aware of the hot button topics now. How about statements like: - people should have body autonomy when it comes to vaccines - the US does not owe entry to illegal immigrants - there are two biological genders - the US is not structurally racist - cops don't kill blacks at higher rates than whites - young children shouldn't be taught controversial topics (sex, etc.) - math is not ra…
Since when are those things not allowed to be said? I see tons of people saying things like that without any consequences. Often, it even results in them being elected to high office.
If the worst punishment is people yelling at you on Twitter, then I think the heresy metaphor has been stretched too far.
Re: Heresy
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
People thought it would be like a joke perhaps. Anyway, it's unflagged now.
And now it is flagged again. This really seems to rub some people (dare we say the "the aggressively conventional-minded"?) the wrong way ...
It’s flamebait, and will never incite civil discussions. Why would we want it on the front page?
Re: Heresy
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's one: I don't believe that gender identity is a valid concept. Does that make for a hostile work environment or "deny the existence" of anyone? I submit to you that the answer is no, except for die-hard adherents of the new ideology. Well, that simply isn't my religion, and I resent attempts to force it on me.
That's fine. You are welcome to believe that. What you can't do is harass people, deny them service, or make their lives a misery. No one is forcing you to believe in something. They're asking you not to be an arsehole about something which doesn't affect your life.
>> No one is forcing you to believe in something.
But they are forcing you to pretend to believe in something by dictating what you are allowed to say about it.
Re: Heresy
#355I think this is an important part: "Fortunately in western countries the suppression of heresies is nothing like as bad as it used to be. Though the window of opinions you can express publicly has narrowed in the last decade, it's still much wider than it was a few hundred years ago. The problem is the derivative. Up till about 1985 the window had been growing ever wider. Anyone looking into the future in 1985 would…
I think the problem with this argument is the free speech "is at an all time high if you zoom out a bit". This is much like the argument, "gun violence is at an all time low if you zoom out a bit" argument.
Both of these statements are true in the macro, but if you look at the trends, they point to a very disturbing line.
The call for the restriction of free speech on the right(1) and the left (2) have increased in very different ways and seem to be increasing, both legislatively and socially. The same can be said of gun violence. We reached an all time low in 2018 (I believe - it might have been 2017) but have been trending upwards ever since.
Most (reasonable) people agree that an effort should be made to curb gun violence, even if they can't agree on the best route to get there. The attack on free speech, however seems to have cheering sections from all sides. As far as the government is concerned, sanctions on the first amendment would be a boon, but the groundswell from the populace in the form of right and left "cancelation" (or whatever BS term you wish to call it) hasn't been seen since McCarthy. Given the rise in the public square with social media, and you have national feeding frenzies with public "witch trials" to take our minds off of inflation, oil prices, pollution and multiple global conflicts of questionable national interest.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-free-speech-is-under-attack...
https://thehill.com/opinion/education/566119-for-the-left-a-...
Re: Heresy
#356When you say or do socially unacceptable things, there can be consequences. Is that “heresy”? I always associated that word with religion, myself, but it’s interesting that religion is so out of favor right now that you can use it as a comparison to argue that any action not explicitly illegal should be free of negative consequence.
Religion isn't out of favour. We are currently in one of the most religious periods of human history but the gods and authorities have just changed.
Re: Heresy
#357Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I often see this kind of vague posting about cancel culture, but generally speaking people are being cancelled (which can either just mean being criticised, or the more legitimate problem of people contacting employers) for either directly saying things that are offensive (the aforementioned -isms) or are implications that directly lead to -ist conclusions. My understanding is that the underlying complaint is th…
Can you please be more specific? What is said which is considered ok but person got canceled? I’m definitely not left wing so I’m really confused with this GP post. Is he defending racists? Is he defending sexists people? Nazis? I doubt so. I understand that you cannot be Republican if you do not believe in gun rights. But these are political affiliations: nobody forced you to be Rebulican.
I'm agreeing with you. I think people complaining vaguely about cultural issues is unhelpful at best. Equating civil rights issues with religious persecution is quite a dodgy implication too.
Edit: As for who he's defending: I don't think he's defending any of those groups. Honestly I don't understand why so many people get upset about the US getting more accepting given they don't seem to be socially reactionary themselves.
Re: Heresy
#358This thing where people want to say horrible things without consequence is just so weird. I have the right to judge your statements just as much as you have a right to say them. I have the right to leave jobs when it turns out the people working there hate people like me, and companies have the right to hire people who aren't going to alienate future potential employees. When people bring up posts like this they neve…
Can you explain what it means to "deny the existence" of someone? I see this expression often, but I'm genuinely puzzled by what it means in practice. I agree with you that "purposely misgendering one's colleagues" should lead to firing, but I think this article isn't about that. It's about people who are tolerant of others and in general try to be nice people, but just disagree about certain things - for example, ho…
> Can you explain what it means to "deny the existence" of someone?
Here's an example:
"There's no such thing as a trans person. Trans is not a real thing, it's a mental illness and a delusion that needs to be cured. "
If you hear that and you are trans, then you are bound to feel like someone is denying you actually exist. Its a strange feeling that someone whose existence has always been validated by society cannot really relate to. I imagine that's why you are puzzled by its meaning.
Re: Heresy
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
Paul posted this because this has escalated to getting people on the political right fired from their jobs (directly or indirectly). See his words: "Nowadays, in civilized countries, heretics only get fired in the metaphorical sense, by losing their jobs. But the structure of the situation is the same: the heresy outweighs everything else. You could have spent the last ten years saving children's lives, but if you ex…
“Political right” is doing a lot of work here. People aren’t getting fired for supporting lower taxes or environmental deregulation.
The good old "a state's right to what exactly?" comeback. :D
Re: Heresy
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
Precisely my thoughts. > In the late 1980s a new ideology of this type appeared in US universities I don't think this was new. Liberality tends to go hand in hand with seeking reality, as discovering something and then adopting it requires intellectual big-tentism. Perhaps the author bemoans the rise of bureaucracy within the university, which has demonstrably increased? My concern is that these arguments about moral…
Is there an alt-right? People use that term, but they might as well be talking about unicorns. All these years, I’ve not met a single alt-right person despite being told this is a large and growing segment of our population, a pernicious and growing “threat to democracy!”Well, if they exist they look a lot like the old-right that voted in exactly the same fashion. If anything the right has gotten much more progressiv…
I think you know that the alt-right is mostly a fantasy created by the current neo-marxist religion. Religion always requires a devil, and if it doesn't exist you make it up.