Heresy • Hacker News Board

Re: Heresy

#21

Post by tomrod » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:47 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #4

What I find most interesting are those arguing against "cancel culture" and the revival of heretics don't find issue with things like the "critical race theory" boogeyman and the "don't say gay"-style bills preventing teaching of sexuality topics. It's interesting how consistency of free thought isn't really the important thing here.

Precisely my thoughts.

> In the late 1980s a new ideology of this type appeared in US universities

I don't think this was new. Liberality tends to go hand in hand with seeking reality, as discovering something and then adopting it requires intellectual big-tentism. Perhaps the author bemoans the rise of bureaucracy within the university, which has demonstrably increased?

My concern is that these arguments about moral puritanicalism aren't without merit, but that they are often ignore the cancerous alt-right, which is bereft of morality beyond racial nationalism. Perhaps the cancel culture creedal concern is considered to be salvageable.

Re: Heresy

#22

Post by jroblak » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

Genuinely funny coming from the dude who insta-blocks anyone who even mildly disagrees with him about _anything_ on Twitter.

Re: Heresy

#23

Post by zozbot234 » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #4

What I find most interesting are those arguing against "cancel culture" and the revival of heretics don't find issue with things like the "critical race theory" boogeyman and the "don't say gay"-style bills preventing teaching of sexuality topics. It's interesting how consistency of free thought isn't really the important thing here.

It's not "don't say gay", it's "don't subject, expect or mandate young kids to learn stuff about things like sexual orientation (or even gender identity) that they cannot possibly relate with prior to the biological changes of adolescence, and that are enough of a minefield for adults already. Leave this stuff to family and broader society for the time being."

Re: Heresy

#24

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #4

What I find most interesting are those arguing against "cancel culture" and the revival of heretics don't find issue with things like the "critical race theory" boogeyman and the "don't say gay"-style bills preventing teaching of sexuality topics. It's interesting how consistency of free thought isn't really the important thing here.

[deleted]

Re: Heresy

#25

Post by eganist » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

baggy_trough wrote: post #17

tedivm wrote: post #11

This thing where people want to say horrible things without consequence is just so weird. I have the right to judge your statements just as much as you have a right to say them. I have the right to leave jobs when it turns out the people working there hate people like me, and companies have the right to hire people who aren't going to alienate future potential employees. When people bring up posts like this they neve…

Here's one: I don't believe that gender identity is a valid concept. Does that make for a hostile work environment or "deny the existence" of anyone? I submit to you that the answer is no, except for die-hard adherents of the new ideology. Well, that simply isn't my religion, and I resent attempts to force it on me.

> Here's one: I don't believe that gender identity is a valid concept. Does that make for a hostile work environment or "deny the existence" of anyone? I submit to you that the answer is no, except for die-hard adherents of the new ideology. Well, that simply isn't my religion, and I resent attempts to force it on me.

Here's the question:

Are you tolerant of people who do? Or do you make the lives of those people (who viscerally feel their gender identity to be true) more difficult than those who share your belief?

The line is crossed with the latter.

Re: Heresy

#26

Post by throwaway5752 » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #4

What I find most interesting are those arguing against "cancel culture" and the revival of heretics don't find issue with things like the "critical race theory" boogeyman and the "don't say gay"-style bills preventing teaching of sexuality topics. It's interesting how consistency of free thought isn't really the important thing here.

Yup. It is conveniently one-side. I don't think it's by design, just accident. When you've concluded that there is a partisan problem, it takes a lot mental discipline (more than even some prominent technology figures have) to see it on both sides of an acrimonious divide. Nothing could be more cancel-culture than ethnic nationalism and efforts to disenfranchise large groups of persons.

Who even came up with the phrase cancel culture to begin with? When? Why does it rhyme and is a just a few syllables? Why doesn't anyone who creates and pushes these slogan/memes and what their motivation is?

Re: Heresy

#27

Post by emerged » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

turbinerneiter wrote: post #3

Is the situation in the US that insane or is he fighting strawmen strapped to windmills?

It’s pretty insane. Notice any comment which is against witch hunt culture is being downvoted. The tech industry is fairly heavily ideologically captured because of where startup culture is largely based (SF).

Edit: and now it’s flagged.

Re: Heresy

#28

Post by bufferoverflow » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

nonesuchluck wrote: post #14

mmastrac wrote: post #4

What I find most interesting are those arguing against "cancel culture" and the revival of heretics don't find issue with things like the "critical race theory" boogeyman and the "don't say gay"-style bills preventing teaching of sexuality topics. It's interesting how consistency of free thought isn't really the important thing here.

Whole thing boils down to "I've always been in the cultural in-group, but man it sucks here in the out-group," as he notices for the first time what life has been like for most people, for most of history. Hilarious.

That's a bad faith argument. He isn't complaining being shunned out of some culture, he is talking about people losing their job, people losing access to platforms that contain lots of people who want to listen to them.

Re: Heresy

#29

Post by mcronce » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

baggy_trough wrote: post #17

tedivm wrote: post #11

This thing where people want to say horrible things without consequence is just so weird. I have the right to judge your statements just as much as you have a right to say them. I have the right to leave jobs when it turns out the people working there hate people like me, and companies have the right to hire people who aren't going to alienate future potential employees. When people bring up posts like this they neve…

Here's one: I don't believe that gender identity is a valid concept. Does that make for a hostile work environment or "deny the existence" of anyone? I submit to you that the answer is no, except for die-hard adherents of the new ideology. Well, that simply isn't my religion, and I resent attempts to force it on me.

Yes, it does. You don't get to decide for other people who or what they are.

Re: Heresy

#30

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 10, 2022, 2:50 PM UTC

Cpoll wrote: post #18

> I've deliberately avoided mentioning any specific heresies here. Which, looking at the replies, is a mistake, because everyone projects the least charitable interpretation and/or assumes the article is dog-whistling. The problem is that there are heresies and heresies, and conflating everything together isn't helpful. To give one extreme of a "heresy": It's reasonable to not want to associate with someone if they'r…

[deleted]