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Back to India

yugal.me

351–360 of 382 posts

Re: Back to India

#351
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You use a lot of words in your post but none are "Ukraine". Ukrainians have the right to decide what they want to do and what, if anything, to give up.

Ukrainians certainly can, but you can't ignore the fact that a lot of NATO's motivations for helping isn't just altruism. Part of this is also the proxy war being fought, and even if India and China want Ukraine to win, they may not want to be the ones paying for a NATO victory.

Small wars almost always drag in bigger powers.

But that doesn't change much. The US intervened in Vietnam and Afghanistan and because the locals didn't want them, the US still lost.

Foreign contributions in Ukraine pale in comparison to Vietnam and Afghanistan yet Ukraine is resisting. And this a full blown Russian invasion, not just a Ukrainian civil war, yet Ukraine might even win this war.

That's strictly the merit of the Ukrainians. You can gift weapons, but not the will to fight.

Re: Back to India

#352
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the deracination in this comment is astounding. I grew up in rural India all my life and this cartoonish casteism is no longer part of the mainstream Indian society. There will be isolated cases, but I’ve seen times and again people freely drinking water from a _pyau_ irrespective of the caste of the person. I implore you to take a rational look at Indian society and not rely on WaPo/NYT to know your own land.

Yeah I thought one of you would come and say this. Here’s a video that you might find illuminating. - Caste Conundrum: Why do upper castes believe discrimination doesn’t exist? - https://youtu.be/vjt8aBoejho (1.4M views). You speak of NYT/WaPo. This was published by an Indian newspaper ThePrint. Now you might be thinking, that can’t be right. I’ve lived in India for a long time, I know it isn’t like this. That’s ok,…

ThePrint , thewire are all part of the propoganda outlets that have popped up in the last few years.

I am not saying casteism isn’t present in India but the way you are projecting is way over the top , especially in urban areas.

Do you know anything about the stringent SC/ST act.? It has now been abused so much against the upper caste , that few years back Supreme Court had to intervene and direct the Govt to not immediately arrest in case of an FIR. There was a huge protest by the SC/ST community over this order and within few weeks Govt had to bow down and pass an ordinance to repeal the order by Supreme Court.

Just Google about “misuse of SC/ST act India” it is mind boggling.

Re: Back to India

#353
post #295
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation in Ukraine is more black and white than most others. That India can't recognize that both surprised me and disappointed me. It would make a big difference if they dared to speak out against Russian agression. Even if they would like to remain on friendly terms with Russia they should recognize the atrociousy which Russia displays in Ukraine. Putin needs to hear it also from India.

> The situation in Ukraine is more black and white than most others. Not for India’s economy and defense. Surely, you recognize they are not a rich country and in an unstable region?

In the long run, it would benefit them if they align with western values. How many Indian IT specialists are working for Russian companies? There is a new cold war brewing and India will need to choose a side.

Re: Back to India

#354
post #70
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd benefit the discussion in a forum filled with non-Indians if you explained what he meant. But I assume it's a caste-thing...

It would benefit the non Indians, certainly. And it’d also get me flagged. But what the hell, I’ll say it. OP is an upper caste male. You won’t see many “India is doing great! I’m heading back there!” posts from Indian women or Indian Muslims or Indian Dalits. That’s what I meant. I’m similar to the OP in that I’m an upper caste male as well. The difference between me and him is that I can understand and empathise wi…

[deleted]

Re: Back to India

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes of course, you’ve never been casteist, so it’s not a problem in India. Please watch these two videos and let me know if you still think so. - Caste Conundrum: Why do upper castes believe discrimination doesn’t exist? - https://youtu.be/vjt8aBoejho (1.4M views). - What Hathras tells us about Casteism in India - https://youtu.be/ELbdGh0-4T4 . (300k views)

I didn’t say it’s not a problem in India. I clearly didn’t say that.

> Basically Caste in India is as much of a problem as racism is in the US.

Is it common in the US for people to refuse to come into contact with people of other races? To bar them from places of worship? To not even touch water they might have touched?

What you did was just whataboutism. It’s the “yeah it’s bad, but no worse than any other place”. But even if we allow this deflection, it’s not true.

Re: Back to India

#356
post #352
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I thought one of you would come and say this. Here’s a video that you might find illuminating. - Caste Conundrum: Why do upper castes believe discrimination doesn’t exist? - https://youtu.be/vjt8aBoejho (1.4M views). You speak of NYT/WaPo. This was published by an Indian newspaper ThePrint. Now you might be thinking, that can’t be right. I’ve lived in India for a long time, I know it isn’t like this. That’s ok,…

ThePrint , thewire are all part of the propoganda outlets that have popped up in the last few years. I am not saying casteism isn’t present in India but the way you are projecting is way over the top , especially in urban areas. Do you know anything about the stringent SC/ST act.? It has now been abused so much against the upper caste , that few years back Supreme Court had to intervene and direct the Govt to not imm…

Hahahaha, there’s always a few of you. The ones that speak about the difficulties faced by the groups of highest socioeconomic status.

What you lack is perspective. Any action you take to stop a crime will lead to false positives.

Try and imagine any crime that happens. Let’s take a crime you feel less strongly about, dowry harassment. Every year thousands of women face mental harassment and physical and assault from their husbands and in-laws demanding dowry. Should we do something about this? It doesn’t affect you or me, after all. Let’s say we do anyway. Now we criminalise harassment related to dowry demands. What we find is that this new law makes no difference. No woman actually charges her in laws because she knows she’ll bear the brunt of their immediate fury. Ok, let’s try again, let’s make the crime non-bailable. Now more women come forward, which is presumably good.

But now we have a non bailable offence that requires minimal evidence before filing charges. Will this be abused? Almost certainly. There are at least a few cases every year.

How do we balance the two? If the standards of evidence are raised or if “false” accusations are penalised, we’ll have more false negatives. If the standards are lowered, we’ll have more false positives. There’s no way around this.

I don’t know the solution here, but I will point this out - people only complain about one side of it. They complain about whatever they can empathise with the most. Each side only thinks that either true harassment cases or false accusations is the worst thing, and we should eradicate them asap. There’s no acknowledgement there’s a trade off between reducing one and increasing the other. There’s no discussion about the total number of each, the number of unreported cases and so on.

That’s how you are. You worry about what will affect you and your family, which is false accusations.

I can’t make you care about other people. Nothing I say will make that happen. All I ask is look at the data and ask yourself - which is more prevalent? Discrimination against other castes or false cases against upper castes? Which has been more prevalent historically?

Re: Back to India

#357
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be bad, but still better than China's system. China has had competent leaders since 1978, but before then they had disastrously bad leaders for decades that killed many millions of their own people, and if the current or some future leadership turn bad, there are few robust mechanisms (institutional knowledge, traditions, expertise, etc) to help replace it with better leadership. In short, although things are…

> In short, although things are pretty good for residents of China at the moment, IMHO the risk of the whole country's becoming a hellscape is much higher in China than in India. that's the tradeoff. In a democracy you intentionally cripple your own government's ability to get things done. It lets you avoid major risks but consequently you don't get to reap major rewards. In a situation like India's, don't you think…

You're undercalling the risk. Measuring by corpse count, the Chinese system triggered arguably one of the greatest catastrophes to ever hit the human rate in the Great Leap Forward. The gap between India and China They're- arguably about 20 years big - isn't large enough to justify that level of suffering. As far as government policy is concerned, that is pretty close and the individual Indians are going to be in a better position to enjoy the fruit of their labour than individual Chinese citizens.

India is consistently achieving 5% real GDP growth for 30 years - and those numbers are a lot more reliable than China's. There is little need to take risks, they're building wealth at a fast rate.

Re: Back to India

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us say this young author has a master's degree from MIT and has worked a few years on an H1B at Tesla. But he does not have a PhD and does not publish research. And he is a very good engineer but does not care for management work. And he does not have a couple of million lying around to splurge on an EB5 visa. So his visa category will be 'EB2' and his wait time for a green card will be more than 100 years. Now l…

I am in the exact same category as OP , and there are options. Yes they are annoying. But so is Indian politics and bureaucracy. I view them as equally annoying.

This "there are options" bit does not help most of the million people stuck waiting 100+ years for the same immigration that their equally qualified colleagues complete in 18 months.

The false equivalence of a 100+ year wait with some vague "Indian politics and bureaucracy" is not relevant. "Romanian politics and bureaucracy" and "Cuban politics and bureaucracy" may be worse than "Indian politics and bureaucracy", but that is not at discussion here. What matters is that Romanian and Cuban H1Bs have an 18 month green card wait time.

And the author clearly considers this unfair process more than "annoying". To him, it is perhaps closer to humiliating and debilitating, which is partly why he has chosen to put up with it no longer.

Re: Back to India

#359
post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ThePrint , thewire are all part of the propoganda outlets that have popped up in the last few years. I am not saying casteism isn’t present in India but the way you are projecting is way over the top , especially in urban areas. Do you know anything about the stringent SC/ST act.? It has now been abused so much against the upper caste , that few years back Supreme Court had to intervene and direct the Govt to not imm…

Hahahaha, there’s always a few of you. The ones that speak about the difficulties faced by the groups of highest socioeconomic status. What you lack is perspective. Any action you take to stop a crime will lead to false positives. Try and imagine any crime that happens. Let’s take a crime you feel less strongly about, dowry harassment. Every year thousands of women face mental harassment and physical and assault from…

> Hahahaha, there’s always a few of you.

Looks like a template attack against those who doesn’t agree with you.

Anything I would say, you would attack it in a long winded response without trying to absorb other’s pov.

That you have touched the topic of dowry harassment, go and meet some good criminal lawyers in India from HC/SC. Don’t just read propaganda. They will clear all your misconceptions about just “few false cases” etc. (More than 90% of dowry cases turn out to be false)

Re: Back to India

#360
post #353
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The situation in Ukraine is more black and white than most others. Not for India’s economy and defense. Surely, you recognize they are not a rich country and in an unstable region?

In the long run, it would benefit them if they align with western values. How many Indian IT specialists are working for Russian companies? There is a new cold war brewing and India will need to choose a side.

This comment reeks of not knowing Indian history or geopolitics.
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