Jewish problems • Hacker News Board

Re: Jewish problems

#81

Post by edanm » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 7:07 AM UTC

tlogan wrote: post #62

cheez wrote: post #21

Can someone please explain to me what the hell is the problem people have with Jews? The only thing I can tell is maybe they're disproportionately financially successful? I guess that's a problem...

I don't think the discrimination is reserved for Jewish population. That is unfortunate story of our crazy world. Pick up any country in the world and you can find a story very similar to Jewish story... For example, Armenins in Turkey in 1915-16 (and latter on). Or Albanians in Serbia. Romas (Gypsies) in Nazi Germany. Palestinians in Israel. Tutsis in Rwanda. Etc. etc. We just need to always fight against things lik…

The things you're describing are very different situations. Jews are citizens of certain countries that are discriminated against based on religion/race. As opposed to, for example, Palestinians, who are not citizens of Israel, and whose oppression or lack thereof is about other things.

Note that I'm not saying anything about the morality of this or whether we need to fight it, just that the different things you talked about are objectively very different from anti-semitism.

Re: Jewish problems

#82

Post by NathanC » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 7:08 AM UTC

microarchitect wrote: post #42

wtracy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More so than almost any other culture, Jews have been consistently able to maintain their own cultural identity even when they are in the demographic minority or displaced abroad. A lot of this is due to their willingness to close themselves off from the surrounding population and maintain their own, separate, religious and social structures. So, from the outside, the local population sees a group of foreigners broug…

Very interesting. Muslim and Hindu communities in the West are also trying to be insular and maintain their own cultural identities, but I guess they're not so effective because they don't have the financial success backing them up that the Jews have. It's a lot harder to deride someone when you know they're making way more money than you, I suppose. those people are up to something I don't mean this in any negative…

"[...] On the other hand, the reason they have these qualities is because they were born with privilege."

How can you say such a thing ? For centuries Jews were born in misery, living in ghettos and essentially considered as non-citizens and they still managed to make it. If Jews have such an exceptional fate and set of skills, it certainly can't be explained by the fact that they were born with privilege, simply because they were not.

Re: Jewish problems

#83

Post by wnight » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 7:11 AM UTC

reissbaker wrote: post #53

microarchitect wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting. Muslim and Hindu communities in the West are also trying to be insular and maintain their own cultural identities, but I guess they're not so effective because they don't have the financial success backing them up that the Jews have. It's a lot harder to deride someone when you know they're making way more money than you, I suppose. those people are up to something I don't mean this in any negative…

Conflating being Jewish with being upper-caste Indian is probably going (way) too far. Note that you're responding to an article that points to systematic historical Russian discrimination against Jews, that the posters above you have pointed out systematic historical American discrimination against Jews, and I think that systematic European discrimination against Jews doesn't need to be reiterated. In Muslim countri…

No, the point was that the Jewish culture is perceived as being one full of practical and successful financial wisdom, similar to that of the upper-class Indian families.

Substituting someone from a less financially successful group would ruin their point.

Re: Jewish problems

#84

Post by iskander » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 7:21 AM UTC

adrianwaj wrote: post #75

tlogan wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the discrimination is reserved for Jewish population. That is unfortunate story of our crazy world. Pick up any country in the world and you can find a story very similar to Jewish story... For example, Armenins in Turkey in 1915-16 (and latter on). Or Albanians in Serbia. Romas (Gypsies) in Nazi Germany. Palestinians in Israel. Tutsis in Rwanda. Etc. etc. We just need to always fight against things lik…

"Palestinians in Israel" Well, the big questions of our time are: are the Palestinians actually oppressed? Who's oppressing them? Does finding out the truth even matter?

Wrong site for this debate.

Re: Jewish problems

#85

Post by thret » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 7:27 AM UTC

mdasen wrote: post #46

cheez wrote: post #21

Can someone please explain to me what the hell is the problem people have with Jews? The only thing I can tell is maybe they're disproportionately financially successful? I guess that's a problem...

Answering as someone Jewish. . . Jews don't assimilate (fully). In the Passover story, one of the things we note is that even living in Egypt for a long time, they didn't assimilate and they were disliked for it. Heck, how often do you hear people talking about other immigrants "not assimilating these days". For centuries, Jews even spoke a language other than the vernacular. We're a much more tolerant world today an…

This explanation is comprehensive, logical, and doesn't make gentiles seem like arseholes. Thank you. I am going to keep this handy.

Re: Jewish problems

#86

Post by dilap » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 7:28 AM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #13

Whereas in the US the reason that colleges use essay questions is because jews score too highly on the SATs. We can thank Harvard for this, as usual. Gladwell has an essay about this here: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/10/10/051010crat_atlar... I forget what Gladwell is copying from, but I know that there is an earlier article that goes into even more detail.

Some would argue that this sort of discrimination continues into the present day, but sub asians for jews.

Re: Jewish problems

#87

Post by jessedhillon » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 7:36 AM UTC

adrianwaj wrote: post #78

tomjen3 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he had lived then, he wouldn't have requested a visa. People smart enough to be on hacker news would also be smart enough to build a simple hot air ballon, or use any of the other was to escape detailed innthe museum at check point charlie.

Thanks, maybe packing bags is too indulgent. Perhaps hiding under a train carriage, just above the tracks.

Spoken like someone whose never set foot outside the Western world.

The main reason this sort of attitude pisses me off is because it assumes -- arrogantly -- that hundreds of thousands of people stayed in the USSR because they were not as determined/motivated as some kid on HN. You simply have no clue how uninformed you are about the reality of that situation at that time.

Hiding under a train carriage to escape the country? Are you kidding!? Try it some time, it's harder than you might think.

Re: Jewish problems

#88

Post by tlogan » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 7:40 AM UTC

tlogan wrote: post #62

cheez wrote: post #21

Can someone please explain to me what the hell is the problem people have with Jews? The only thing I can tell is maybe they're disproportionately financially successful? I guess that's a problem...

I don't think the discrimination is reserved for Jewish population. That is unfortunate story of our crazy world. Pick up any country in the world and you can find a story very similar to Jewish story... For example, Armenins in Turkey in 1915-16 (and latter on). Or Albanians in Serbia. Romas (Gypsies) in Nazi Germany. Palestinians in Israel. Tutsis in Rwanda. Etc. etc. We just need to always fight against things lik…

Why is this downvoted? Honestly...

Re: Jewish problems

#89

Post by adrianwaj » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 7:44 AM UTC

adrianwaj wrote: post #78

tomjen3 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he had lived then, he wouldn't have requested a visa. People smart enough to be on hacker news would also be smart enough to build a simple hot air ballon, or use any of the other was to escape detailed innthe museum at check point charlie.

Thanks, maybe packing bags is too indulgent. Perhaps hiding under a train carriage, just above the tracks.

haha, being karma-bombed here.. will not reply in this thread. QED on the article's accuracy. Thank you for confirming my thoughts!

Re: Jewish problems

#90

Post by tlogan » Tue, Oct 11, 2011, 7:49 AM UTC

edanm wrote: post #81

tlogan wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the discrimination is reserved for Jewish population. That is unfortunate story of our crazy world. Pick up any country in the world and you can find a story very similar to Jewish story... For example, Armenins in Turkey in 1915-16 (and latter on). Or Albanians in Serbia. Romas (Gypsies) in Nazi Germany. Palestinians in Israel. Tutsis in Rwanda. Etc. etc. We just need to always fight against things lik…

The things you're describing are very different situations. Jews are citizens of certain countries that are discriminated against based on religion/race. As opposed to, for example, Palestinians, who are not citizens of Israel, and whose oppression or lack thereof is about other things. Note that I'm not saying anything about the morality of this or whether we need to fight it, just that the different things you talk…

I agree that situations are not the same in all the above cases and they cannot be compared with anti-semitism. Anti-semitism is specific to cultures based on Abrahamic religions and it really does not exist outside it.

However, if you talk with people which have been sufferings these injustices you will hear the same story regardless how we classify that discrimination.