Live data from Hacker News

Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

fisherphillips.com

111–120 of 228 posts

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#111
post #61

This bill affects only hourly workers, which means that Walmarts and other companies will just cut their work week and pay employees less. They are not going to pay them overtime if they work more. And poor people will need to find an extra job to keep up with bills. The only poeple who might benefit are hourly gov employees - but that depends on budget constrains.

if walmart employees unionize it could go a long way to prevent that

Exactly!!

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#112
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I mean we should also have a 32 hour work week but the laws surrounding it need teeth for sure. We should hold executives/managers criminally liable with the potential for jail time for repeat offenses. It's absolutely fucking absurd that shoplifting, especially when performed by disadvantaged folks carries harsher penalties than systematic wage theft. It's upside down clown world out there, abusing your positio…

Are you saying the punishment for shoplifting should be less if you're disadvantaged compared to if you're not?

In the current regime it seems like crimes are punished less if you are advantaged. The current system seems like a worse arrangement to me because it adds disadvantage to disadvantage.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#113

I really feel like work would be quite tolerable at 4 days a week. 5 days plus commute has always felt suffocating to me.

Consider that people used to work every day. Farming, hunting, subsisting. When organized religion and cities started to spread, you had one day a week as the day of rest. The industrial age and unionization brought us 5 days, which is now "suffocating." So if 4 days is the norm, that would start to feel suffocating also. Then it would be 3 days. Then, when work is the thing you spend the minority of your time on, yo…

This is a bs narrative, ahistorical. Try Graeber/Wengrow’s recent research/book

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#114
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying the punishment for shoplifting should be less if you're disadvantaged compared to if you're not?

No, I'm saying the reality is that the punishment often IS harsher if you're from a disadvantaged group. I think the punishments should be harsher for wage theft than shoplifting because the former is abusing a position of power, which I believe to be more corrosive to the fabric of society. Though I also believe punishments should be proportional to your means, see for example speeding tickets in Finland. You should…

Not to mention that stealing $100 from 100 workers is objectively a worse crime than stealing $100 from a shop owner, and yet the former is not even punished. Talk about regulatory capture, eh?

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#115
Instead of all these regulations, why not institute basic income. If every adult was given $2000 ( or whatever figure we come up with ) you wouldn't have to create so many laws. Minimum wage, work hours, retirement, diversity, etc laws would be unnecessary because it would be difficult to exploit people whose needs are met. Why pass hundreds of laws when you can pass 1 that solves all the problem?

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of the length of the work week and who it applies to is already a concept defined by government.

Unfortunately. People should be able to negotiate between themselves without interference from the government.

With all respect, that is an astoundingly naive viewpoint in light of the fact that there is nowhere near power equality between employer and worker.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#117
post #61

This bill affects only hourly workers, which means that Walmarts and other companies will just cut their work week and pay employees less. They are not going to pay them overtime if they work more. And poor people will need to find an extra job to keep up with bills. The only poeple who might benefit are hourly gov employees - but that depends on budget constrains.

This is poor reasoning. It assumes there will be enough extra jobs, but there is a friction to that. Wallmart trying to staff up with more people will also not be trivial for them, and come with more fixed costs.

Obviously it would be better with a magic way to get rid of second jobs for poor workers (and stuff like UBI and JG nicely avoid these issues without magic) but it still would be win for labor.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#118
post #115

Instead of all these regulations, why not institute basic income. If every adult was given $2000 ( or whatever figure we come up with ) you wouldn't have to create so many laws. Minimum wage, work hours, retirement, diversity, etc laws would be unnecessary because it would be difficult to exploit people whose needs are met. Why pass hundreds of laws when you can pass 1 that solves all the problem?

basic income definitely doesn't mean they can deregulate everything else. it greatly lessens the leverage these businesses have over workers but the leverage doesn't go away entirely. also basic income doesn't solve every problem.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#119
post #115

Instead of all these regulations, why not institute basic income. If every adult was given $2000 ( or whatever figure we come up with ) you wouldn't have to create so many laws. Minimum wage, work hours, retirement, diversity, etc laws would be unnecessary because it would be difficult to exploit people whose needs are met. Why pass hundreds of laws when you can pass 1 that solves all the problem?

$2000 barely covers rent ( 1 br LA/SF). We’d also need rent control legislation to prevent rents from rising to absorb the UBI.

Apart from that I agree - UBI is the simplest, cheapest way to lift the population out of poverty.

The outcomes are fantastic - I recommend Rutger Bregman’s book on it.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#120
post #35

What we need is more enforcement of existing labor laws. A 40-hour work week with teeth. No "unpaid overtime". No "time shaving". Out of hours phone calls count as work time, with a minimum time for a call. (3 hours in the movie industry).

What I’d like to see is less government power, which means they stay out of my life, which means more freedom and less coercion, which means I can negotiate my life as I see fit like a grown up who is responsible for himself.

not everyone has the constitution to advocate aggressively for themselves. just because you can doesn't mean we can leave people who don't or won't to get exploited and taken advantage of. also not everyone is in a position to advocate for themselves even if they wanted to. there are a lot of people whose life would fall apart if they lost their job and the the business has all of the leverage. for those people, these regulations you hate are the only things preventing them from being sold into indentured survitude. your libertarian utopia is just like every other utopia. it's naive and nonsensical
Post reply on HN