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An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

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Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#491

Post by dan-robertson »

Markoff wrote: post #411
mensetmanusman wrote: post #112

A high school friend of ours is apartment-jailed in Shanghai right now. She is a young mom, and all the moms in the apartment are all out of everything required to care for babies. Trying to share strategies on how to use any kitchen ingredients to make formula or rash ointments… I wonder if this will actually have any political blowback in the coming years, or if this only strengthens the ccp.

You don't need baby formula, it's sad how MANY Chinese fall for baby formula propaganda banned in west with formula samples given to new mothers in Chinese hospitals. Only 1-5% of mothers are unable to breastfeed, the most of the formula buyers just believe fairy tales and feed their kids unhealthy formula and then they complain about being unable to get formula. Also you dont really need much for baby besides breast…

It seems difficult to argue that mothers should totally change what they’re doing (away from the thing they had believed was right) and to achieve this they would likely need to be convinced that the new way is better. But I think this is also missing the point because if people are struggling to get food too they likely won’t produce much milk.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#492

Post by dan-robertson »

88913527 wrote: post #474
stjohnswarts wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if you completely shut down private services there, then there's no way the government has the resources to help everyone. They'll end up killing and traumatizing far more people than they're saving from covid. Rather than forcing everyone to get a vaccine they do this--I mean if you're going to be a totalitarian system at least do it logically. Just goes to show you how shit the CCP logic is.

It gives more weight to Americans who opposed lockdowns too. This is the slippery slope argument coming to life, if you took lockdown to the extreme, and I think that was the biggest fear of those who opposed lockdowns.

Americans get regular free and fair elections so I feel like such a slippery slope argument is weak

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#493

Post by largbae »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #349
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #19

> This is the biggest, richest, most international city of China and people are starving, without medicine, and without freedom. Ouch. Seems like a really bad situation.

Yeah if you completely shut down private services there, then there's no way the government has the resources to help everyone. They'll end up killing and traumatizing far more people than they're saving from covid. Rather than forcing everyone to get a vaccine they do this--I mean if you're going to be a totalitarian system at least do it logically. Just goes to show you how shit the CCP logic is.

I think most everyone _is_ vaccinated. That is what makes this sadder.

Can we use some of this outrage energy that the world has summoned in this decade to hold governments like CCP to account? Or are they still untouchable because everyone still thinks that the CCP-managed economy is unstoppable and we need to reserve our place in line for the future scraps from that table?

I have been to Shanghai multiple times and have great friends suffering there. Being anti-CCP is neither racist nor anti-China. I dream of the day when all of China is as vibrant and powerful as Taiwan is today, or Hong Kong before Carrie Lam.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#494

Post by Markoff »

sgt101 wrote: post #486
Markoff wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need baby formula, it's sad how MANY Chinese fall for baby formula propaganda banned in west with formula samples given to new mothers in Chinese hospitals. Only 1-5% of mothers are unable to breastfeed, the most of the formula buyers just believe fairy tales and feed their kids unhealthy formula and then they complain about being unable to get formula. Also you dont really need much for baby besides breast…

>is rash ointments which can be really issue If you'd ever shared your home with a baby that had nappy rash I feel you might have a different pov here.

I think your should read my comment again judging by your reply since it seems you think you are contradicting me.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#495

Post by Markoff »

dan-robertson wrote: post #491
Markoff wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need baby formula, it's sad how MANY Chinese fall for baby formula propaganda banned in west with formula samples given to new mothers in Chinese hospitals. Only 1-5% of mothers are unable to breastfeed, the most of the formula buyers just believe fairy tales and feed their kids unhealthy formula and then they complain about being unable to get formula. Also you dont really need much for baby besides breast…

It seems difficult to argue that mothers should totally change what they’re doing (away from the thing they had believed was right) and to achieve this they would likely need to be convinced that the new way is better. But I think this is also missing the point because if people are struggling to get food too they likely won’t produce much milk.

Obviously, I'm just pointing out they complain about being unable to do the bad thing they are used to. I can understand it's difficult to start doing the good thing now, but using this as example of how bad is lockdown is almost as alcoholics complaining they can't get alcohol, there are for sure much better examples why COVID zero is stupid strategy than mothers unable to get formula for their babies.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#496

Post by ipaddr »

mike_h wrote: post #219
ipaddr wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would not know what people are really thinking because sharing misery will land you in jail. Is that how separated mothers feel in lockdown jails?

That’s not how it works. Plenty of negative stuff shared online.

What's being shared online?

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#497

Post by MandieD »

sgt101 wrote: post #486
Markoff wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need baby formula, it's sad how MANY Chinese fall for baby formula propaganda banned in west with formula samples given to new mothers in Chinese hospitals. Only 1-5% of mothers are unable to breastfeed, the most of the formula buyers just believe fairy tales and feed their kids unhealthy formula and then they complain about being unable to get formula. Also you dont really need much for baby besides breast…

>is rash ointments which can be really issue If you'd ever shared your home with a baby that had nappy rash I feel you might have a different pov here.

Also, rash ointment = can be slightly less aggressive about changing wet but not full diapers.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#498

Post by School-Cotton »

88913527 wrote: post #474
stjohnswarts wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if you completely shut down private services there, then there's no way the government has the resources to help everyone. They'll end up killing and traumatizing far more people than they're saving from covid. Rather than forcing everyone to get a vaccine they do this--I mean if you're going to be a totalitarian system at least do it logically. Just goes to show you how shit the CCP logic is.

It gives more weight to Americans who opposed lockdowns too. This is the slippery slope argument coming to life, if you took lockdown to the extreme, and I think that was the biggest fear of those who opposed lockdowns.

> I think that was the biggest fear of those who opposed lockdowns.

Not for me, at least. I opposed lockdowns (and still do), even though I never thought it was realistic that we’d have a China-style one in NYC. I think what we did have was bad enough that it caused more unhappiness than it prevented.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#499

Post by fivea »

School-Cotton wrote: post #422
fivea wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Keeping everything locked down has a huge human cost too. That really depends on what's your personal definition of "keeping everything locked down". European countries like Spain and Italy showed that lockdowns work quite well in quickly halving infection rates with negligible externalities, but their lockdown focused on non-essential work and everyone was allowed to do basic provisioning things such as going to t…

> negligible externalities. I hate this trend of downplaying how harsh the lockdowns were, even in Western countries. If you think they were worth it because you personally put a high importance on longevity, fine, that’s a legitimate policy position (though I disagree with it). But what happened in Spain and Italy was a catastrophic disruption to normal life by any reasonable standard.

> But what happened in Spain and Italy was a catastrophic disruption to normal life by any reasonable standard.

I lived in Spain through the pandemic. I saw from my apartment the army trucks racing across Madrid, the police cars with loudspeakers advising everyone to stay indoors, and army patrols going through the city to enforce the lockdown.

Do you actually know what was a catastrophic disruption to normal life by any reasonable standard? Having to commandeer the local ice rink to have a place to store all the excess dead bodies, and setting up a huge makeshift hospital in the city's expo hall to accommodate the patients.

Knowing that, do you have any idea what finally managed to reign in the outbreaks under control? Lockdowns. Two weeks since their onset, infection rates dropped to residual.

Don't talk about things you know nothing about.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#500

Post by [deleted] »

88913527 wrote: post #474
stjohnswarts wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah if you completely shut down private services there, then there's no way the government has the resources to help everyone. They'll end up killing and traumatizing far more people than they're saving from covid. Rather than forcing everyone to get a vaccine they do this--I mean if you're going to be a totalitarian system at least do it logically. Just goes to show you how shit the CCP logic is.

It gives more weight to Americans who opposed lockdowns too. This is the slippery slope argument coming to life, if you took lockdown to the extreme, and I think that was the biggest fear of those who opposed lockdowns.

[deleted]
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