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Spreadsheets Are Hot–and Cranking Out Complex Code

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Re: Spreadsheets Are Hot–and Cranking Out Complex Code

#51
post #41

Every day I think about how Microsoft Access allowed otherwise not-so-tech-savvy users to, with just a little training and practice, build a complete relational database for their entire business, supported by a relatively sane GUI and a way to build forms and reports with very little (if any) 'code'. I have no idea what small companies are using nowadays, but I think there has to be some untapped middle ground somew…

Does it exist a good Microsoft Access replacement?

For read-only workflows Power Query is the killer feature of the past decade.

For writes, there's Airtable, Google Forms, PowerApps etc.

Re: Spreadsheets Are Hot–and Cranking Out Complex Code

#52
post #41

Every day I think about how Microsoft Access allowed otherwise not-so-tech-savvy users to, with just a little training and practice, build a complete relational database for their entire business, supported by a relatively sane GUI and a way to build forms and reports with very little (if any) 'code'. I have no idea what small companies are using nowadays, but I think there has to be some untapped middle ground somew…

Does it exist a good Microsoft Access replacement?

Appsmith was recommended last year.

https://github.com/appsmithorg/appsmith

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26657803#26658546 Ask HN: Best low-/no-code solution for simple web-based database frontends

Re: Spreadsheets Are Hot–and Cranking Out Complex Code

#53

>Suddenly, the field has begun to bloom. A small cluster of startups have in the past year released spreadsheet products All of which are subscription based SAAS. Maybe I am showing my VisiCalc oldster roots, but I want my document related tools to be pay once / run locally. I long for a computing world where the free tier is run-in-a-browser-on-someone-else's-computer and the paid tier is run local and native.

My reactive workspace tool aka spreadsheet replacement (Inflex) is SaaS, but I’ve also considered offering a completely downloadable tool for a one off price. I think if ever get a substantial user base and people ask for that, it’s on the table.

Re: Spreadsheets Are Hot–and Cranking Out Complex Code

#54

>Suddenly, the field has begun to bloom. A small cluster of startups have in the past year released spreadsheet products All of which are subscription based SAAS. Maybe I am showing my VisiCalc oldster roots, but I want my document related tools to be pay once / run locally. I long for a computing world where the free tier is run-in-a-browser-on-someone-else's-computer and the paid tier is run local and native.

Yup

It is a horrible and unusable business model/architecture.

1) Requiring subscription to access when it is not technically required is onerous and very questionable value, especially for tools that I'll use intermittently.

2) Requiring online access instead of local & native apps makes the false assumption that I'm always connected. Often my most productive times are on 6-hour flights (& no, the onboard wifi is not reliable) or away at locations where there is no connectivity.

3) Performance will always suck compared to a fully local app - all the optimizations a developer could do to make it run acceptably could also be applied to a local app to make it really snappy

4) Any SAAS carries significant extra risk that does not exist local native app - that the software /service could disappear any time due to a host of business reasons. Sure, native app companies can also go out of biz or discontinue products, but I still have the software and can upgrade on MY schedule.

5) MOST CRITICALLY, entire classes of very attractive customers are LEGALLY locked out of using your apps. In my industry, there is an entire new class of information called CUI — Confidential Unclassified Information — anything related to DOD projects that isn't quite classified, but there are very strong restrictions on what can be exposed in what way. My wife's industry is legal, and they have almost nothing that could be put on a SAAS, even billing information. And of course same with medical.

Of course there are some apps where the online SAAS is close to essential, like real-time collaboration / conferencing.

However anything else, and it looks strongly like the business model is extractive and rent-seeking, instead of providing value. (and this also applies even to IOT devices - I should be able to access those via the IP, not only through your service...)

Re: Spreadsheets Are Hot–and Cranking Out Complex Code

#57

I've learned products designed to replace spreadsheets have a huge hurdle because the people who use spreadsheets treat operating the sheet as their job. Replacing them removes their autonomy and control over an information process, and subsumes the value they bring to their employers - so they will resist products that threaten that. Excel is a complete management subculture. The other advice I give is if you are ge…

> the people who use spreadsheets treat operating the sheet as their job Yes, observed the same. And "The new tool is faster and more reliable!" does not help either. They got their workflow and cope with it - for years. Only time people adopted new tools - banking - when they could deliver their assignments way faster to their superiors. Personal advantages must be spotted.

To be fair, I don’t think it’s coping.

Spreadsheets are malleable by design. Being able to modify how it functions on the fly is an enormous power for these users. And the better/faster/smarter SaaS replacement is also extremely rigid and inflexible. So while it works to replace the current version of their god spreadsheet, it can’t adjust on the fly as the user’s needs change like the spreadsheet can.

I’m convinced that there does exist a “better spreadsheet” that treats power users as exactly they and incorporates things from the software engineering works like version control, modularity, reusability, sharability, etc. that hasn’t been built yet.

Re: Spreadsheets Are Hot–and Cranking Out Complex Code

#58

I've learned products designed to replace spreadsheets have a huge hurdle because the people who use spreadsheets treat operating the sheet as their job. Replacing them removes their autonomy and control over an information process, and subsumes the value they bring to their employers - so they will resist products that threaten that. Excel is a complete management subculture. The other advice I give is if you are ge…

> I've learned products designed to replace spreadsheets have a huge hurdle because the people who use spreadsheets treat operating the sheet as their job.

In general? Not really. Just as frequently, the fancy tool promoters don't care to understand the subtleties of the job and when it requires flexibility or judgment that the spreadsheet accommodates better. They have their hammer -- software formally engineered by software experts for disempowered "users" -- and everything looks like a nail.

"It's faster and more reliable (when everything goes as planned)" isn't really the slam dunk these folks think it is.

Give these users a more flexible tool like Alteryx, that actually lets them do their job, and I've seen that they'll happily migrate off of Excel.

Re: Spreadsheets Are Hot–and Cranking Out Complex Code

#60

I've learned products designed to replace spreadsheets have a huge hurdle because the people who use spreadsheets treat operating the sheet as their job. Replacing them removes their autonomy and control over an information process, and subsumes the value they bring to their employers - so they will resist products that threaten that. Excel is a complete management subculture. The other advice I give is if you are ge…

Another way to see the same problem is that the IT system replacing the spreadsheet will take a long time to build and replicate the process in the narrowest possible way. Then something changes, updating the system will be an uphill battle that will take years fighting for budget and prioritisation, and you have to revert to spreadsheets.
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