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Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

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Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#21

Post by dragonwriter »

enriquec wrote: post #6
dragonwriter wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been hearing lots of business owners complaining about California's labor laws getting increasingly hostile which leads companies to relocate or move as many resources they can outside of CA I’m almost 50, and I’ve been hearing and reading lots of this my whole life. But somehow California’s economy keeps doing well, even without being one of the places that are winning the battle to attract the firms that are…

economy doing well? are you telling me that cities that are completely unaffordable and overrun with crime, homelessness, and drug abuse - along with mass exodus - are signs of a healthy economy? I live here. I'm fighting the good fight - and it isn't working. It's getting worse every day.

> are you telling me that cities that are completely unaffordable and overrun with crime, homelessness, and drug abuse - along with mass exodus - are signs of a healthy economy?

The parts of that that are real long term issues, particular unaffordability problems (of which homelessness is an effect) absolutely are an effect of a strong aggregate economy that the pro-labor and redistributive policies haven't been enough to keep with; so is the “mass exodus“ (that is, the domestic out-migration mostly in lower-income segments that has for a long time been slightly above domestic in-migration that has had substantially higher average income, that only became net overall outmigration with recent federal policy and COVID-related curbs on international immigration.)

Unaffordability is a result of the enormous wealth of capitalists and elite labor that aggregate economic strength has produced driving up costs.

> I live here.

So do I.

> I'm fighting the good fight

In what way?

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#22

Post by ceeplusplus »

iso1210 wrote: post #14
enriquec wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

economy doing well? are you telling me that cities that are completely unaffordable and overrun with crime, homelessness, and drug abuse - along with mass exodus - are signs of a healthy economy? I live here. I'm fighting the good fight - and it isn't working. It's getting worse every day.

So demand massivley outstrips supply. If people aren't living in such horrible circumstances (crime, homelessness, drug abuse), why is demand so high that houses are unaffordable?

I don't know if you've been in California recently, but in the East Bay at least a large number of small businesses have closed down and formerly vibrant places now look like homeless encampments. I used to feel comfortable taking out my phone even after dark on BART, now I don't. The economy might still be chugging along but it's not chugging along on the back of the big cities with ultra liberal takes on crime/homelessness/drugs, it's mostly chugging along due to the suburbs like Newport Beach, Pleasanton, etc. Those places have substantially more conservative views on crime/homelessness/drugs (Newport Beach is actually a Republican district) and don't really tolerate the sort of behavior we see in SF.

Seriously, just check out downtown SF if you don't believe me. It feels dead. There are more beggars than tourists. I recently went to a nice restaurant near the MacArthur BART station and not only was it dead, the area around it felt like I was visiting the hood near USC.

> why is demand so high that houses are unaffordable

It is not that demand is so high but that supply is so low. When you have SFH zoning with massive set back requirements you can't fit many people into the available space.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#26

Post by kelnos »

ceeplusplus wrote: post #22
iso1210 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So demand massivley outstrips supply. If people aren't living in such horrible circumstances (crime, homelessness, drug abuse), why is demand so high that houses are unaffordable?

I don't know if you've been in California recently, but in the East Bay at least a large number of small businesses have closed down and formerly vibrant places now look like homeless encampments. I used to feel comfortable taking out my phone even after dark on BART, now I don't. The economy might still be chugging along but it's not chugging along on the back of the big cities with ultra liberal takes on crime/home…

> Seriously, just check out downtown SF if you don't believe me. It feels dead.

Wouldn't we attribute this more to COVID, though? This thread is talking about a hypothetical poor economy due to businesses leaving because of employee-friendly labor laws. In early 2020 downtown was pretty vibrant.

> There are more beggars than tourists.

I get that you're exaggerating for effect, but c'mon. I saw plenty of tourists/shoppers in the Powell/Market area in the middle of a weekday last week, out and about, doing their thing.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#27

Post by throwawayboise »

mrfusion wrote: post #15

I really feel like work would be quite tolerable at 4 days a week. 5 days plus commute has always felt suffocating to me.

Consider that people used to work every day. Farming, hunting, subsisting. When organized religion and cities started to spread, you had one day a week as the day of rest. The industrial age and unionization brought us 5 days, which is now "suffocating." So if 4 days is the norm, that would start to feel suffocating also. Then it would be 3 days. Then, when work is the thing you spend the minority of your time on, you start to ask yourself "why am I doing this at all?"

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#28

Post by hollasch »

me_me_mu_mu wrote: post #18
enriquec wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

economy doing well? are you telling me that cities that are completely unaffordable and overrun with crime, homelessness, and drug abuse - along with mass exodus - are signs of a healthy economy? I live here. I'm fighting the good fight - and it isn't working. It's getting worse every day.

I think from a politics standpoint yeah I’m kind of a doomer. I identify as liberal but the people running on liberal platform are really dumb and their opponents are insane/dumb in other ways. There’s no good options to vote for. Idk how we will manage to wade through that.

Hah! I identify as [Republican] but the people running on [Republican] platform are really dumb and their opponents are insane/dumb in other ways. There’s no good options to vote for.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#29

Post by rufus_foreman »

dragonwriter wrote: post #5
acwan93 wrote: post #2

Serious question, and maybe this is just based on the people I've met: I've been hearing lots of business owners complaining about California's labor laws getting increasingly hostile which leads companies to relocate or move as many resources they can outside of CA, much like Tesla did. Does anyone else share that sentiment? I personally think that this is well-intentioned but has consequences that need to be though…

> I've been hearing lots of business owners complaining about California's labor laws getting increasingly hostile which leads companies to relocate or move as many resources they can outside of CA I’m almost 50, and I’ve been hearing and reading lots of this my whole life. But somehow California’s economy keeps doing well, even without being one of the places that are winning the battle to attract the firms that are…

>> somehow California’s economy keeps doing well

California has the nation's highest poverty rate when cost of living is taken in to account.

If the worst poverty rate is "doing well", what would doing poorly look like, in your opinion?

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#30

Post by dehrmann »

mrichman wrote: post #25

[flagged]

You're probably getting downvoted because you're coming at this from a bad place, but asking what's the ideal time per week spent working (depending on the job and what you're optimizing for) and what's the minimum where you're still effective is fair to ask.
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