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MIT graduate students vote to unionize

thetech.com

171–180 of 400 posts

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#171
post #5

Coming from Sweden I'm surprised they aren't already. Do you also not have student unions to represent you until you reach undergrad?

I believe you are thinking about representative bodies (maybe the equivalent of UA for undergrads, or GSC for grads, at MIT) while the union in the news is employment-based and is the sole legally recognized entity to negotiate salaries, employment conditions, etc. on behalf of MIT graduate students.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#172

UW Madison teaching assistants were represented by a union [1,2] between 1970 and 2011, when its status was abruptly terminated by conservative political forces in Wisconsin. When the union was active, it was pretty clear that negotiating was not its strength, but the union was always available to help people navigate day-to-day problems that come up. Maybe it is just coincidence, but multiple independent accounts de…

Did you mean "represented by a union" rather than "repressed by a union"?

Yes! Edited to fix that.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other side of this equation, I think international students comprise a potent reservoir of strikebreakers.

There's a reason why Academia and Big Tech love immigration. And then there's the argument they use to justify why immigration is good, like diversity, inclusion, globalization, ... which may be valid or not. But isn't it just perfect when your objectives are so closely aligned with what is considered morally right. To regard these agents as moral actors instead of self-serving profit seekers is just lunacy.

Except in general people from other countries may be more amenable to union organizing and joining, since they often come from cultures where unions are viewed more positively than in the US, and where more of the workforce is unionized, and may possibly even have experience themselves with unions, or else have family members who do -- or if not with unions, with other kinds of collective political action of sorts that have become less common in the USA

I think this has been shown to be true in grad student unionization drives in the US.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#175
post #45

For anyone not familiar with the world of academia, grad students actually have a good bit more power available to them by organising sensibly than you might think. The same is also true for early career postdoctoral research staff. This is because most of the work that actually matters is being done by these individuals, in a very pyramidical structure, but the money stops rolling in without the work that the base o…

If a professor is only taking credit for underlings' work he / she will, at some point, stop getting good students...

In these kinds of departments, I think the professor PI is understood as basically a management position -- they get the funding, they "hire" and manage the right grad students and other staff who do the work -- and yeah, then they take credit for it. So they aren't "only" taking credit for others work, they are performing administrative and management functions. And if they do that job well, they will not stop getting students. Because it can be the only game in town (literally, in the "town" you are in), and switching labs is a set back (switching schools/departments even harder and more so).

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on what regulations you feel are lacking and how you'd like to see them implemented?

> Can you expand on what regulations you feel are lacking [..] It's fundamentally wrong for one human (the PhD supervisor) to have so much unchecked power over another (the PhD student). Without changing how the entire system works, I'm not sure how you fix that by means of regulation.

It's not really unchecked though. There's the department vice chair, department chair, the college dean, the dean of student affairs, a student senate, a faculty senate, etc. etc... there's a structure here for resolving grievances.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#177
This is highly needed in non-elite universities. Grad students are underpaid, and encouraged to apply for scolarship that yes will improve their resume but result in them paying taxes on them so they end up with even less money than they had before. In some places they are threatened to be kicked out of programs if they don't apply to those scolarships. This plus the repeat offender PIs that can abuse their students and get protected because they bring grant money...

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#179

In the UK, most students are members of their universitys' branch of the National Union of Students.[1] The unions have a big presence on campus and a bar with heavily discounted drinks and organise a lot of the social clubs and events that happen outside of the study. They also negotiate with the university and faculty, fighting for students, and you can get individual advise and help too. Enrolling to the student u…

It is abnormal in the _USA_. The USA is not a very typical place, so probably should not be taken as representative of other countries, or even other rich countries.

I suspect a similar kind of student organization is normal in Europe as well as the british commonwealth, at least, but I'm not sure.

It is not how it works in the USA.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#180
post #81
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Arguments against unionization from already tenured faculty usually sound like: An argument against a union at MIT came from un-tenured graduate student Kevin Wang : https://thetech.com/2021/10/21/why-we-do-not-need-a-gsu TLDR: he didn't think paying the 1.44% annual union dues (~$620/year) is going to be worth it. He based this on comparing MIT salary increase history to other universities with and without unions.…

It IS interesting to note that if most unions went dues-optional they'd starve from lack of money. If their members were really convinced of the value that tragedy of the commons wouldn't occur.

> If their members were really convinced of the value that tragedy of the commons wouldn't occur.

It’s called a Tragedy for a reason.

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