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An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

jaapgrolleman.com

341–350 of 559 posts

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#341
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large scale infections like we've had elsewhere would be impossible to hide. China's low case and death rate is broadly accurate.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/ Find me another country on earth whose numbers look even remotely like this.

Seems like the reasonable position to hold is that china may not be telling the truth, but it's also probably true that they have very low death rates (eg. in line with taiwan/south korea/japan). The parent post did say "broadly accurate", after all.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#342

As a Chinese, I can say that the situation is worse than it in the article. My brother is a student who lives in a flat and has not eaten for two days and no one has brought basic substances. He can't leave the flat, he turns to his tutor but his tutor is also forced to stay at home (eating instant noodles every day). We are worried about him but there is nothing we can do, if we criticise the government on chinese T…

Terrifying. Is there no private food delivery?

No they shut down all deliveries of food and food stuff like a week before the lockdown. You could still get some during that time, but I have many orders that never shipped. After lockdown started, all deliveries stopped.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#343

As a Chinese, I can say that the situation is worse than it in the article. My brother is a student who lives in a flat and has not eaten for two days and no one has brought basic substances. He can't leave the flat, he turns to his tutor but his tutor is also forced to stay at home (eating instant noodles every day). We are worried about him but there is nothing we can do, if we criticise the government on chinese T…

There are two kind of issue there:

- have no "buffer", meaning living in houses where you can't store food in quantity sufficient for a certain, not little, period of time, in some countries there are even official recommendations like Swiss who recommend one week of food and three days of water (I think, not sure about exact data);

- live in a not-united population that can arise effectively, no government, no power can stop an angry population, they can only try to avoid communications, create confusion and divert anger towards against false/others target.

The first issue might be sorted out if economical conditions allow citizens to live in large-enough homes with room for freezers etc to guarantee even a month of autonomy. The second unfortunately is a tricky business that can change in decades, no less...

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#345

A high school friend of ours is apartment-jailed in Shanghai right now. She is a young mom, and all the moms in the apartment are all out of everything required to care for babies. Trying to share strategies on how to use any kitchen ingredients to make formula or rash ointments… I wonder if this will actually have any political blowback in the coming years, or if this only strengthens the ccp.

Complaining is against the party. China makes use of people who complain to much https://nypost.com/2022/04/07/researchers-claim-chinese-surg...

There have been stories and rumors about this for decades. It definitely happens with prisoners that are on "death row". I guess if you're a high level CCP member and need a heart that's just what's gonna happen. You don't really have any rights there just whatever "freedoms" the government allows. I try to warn people who think Trump should be dictator that it's not a good idea.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccines do not prevent infection but reduce the ultimate harm of the infection.

This position leads to inevitable follow up question: if vaccination reduces only personal risks, and does not prevent infection spread, why forcing it on anyone? If a person is unwilling to vaccinate and accepts the higher risk of a negative outcome, let him decide for himself, no?

The majority of western countries did this. Optional vaccines, restricted from public gatherings if you choose to not get it.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#347
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your point is that things cannot improve when they are bad because no one can voice a contrarian view, but your evidence that things are bad is Shanghai's vice-mayor advocating contrarian views?

My point is that the only way for China to contain Omicron is to increase lockdown measures to the point that many people are dying due to lack of food and healthcare. The alternative is to abandon CovidZero policies completely and go the path of heard immunity. And in China you are not allowed to express those facts, because it means the leaders were wrong to promote CovidZero.

I mean, it certainly seems like China could just figure out some way to get the last 5 meters of food delivery solved.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#348
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in an urban village in China during the 2020 lockdowns and literally overnight the authorities erected 6+ foot high fences around my whole neighborhood. Entry and exit to the newly-minted gated community was funneled through two checkpoints that never existed prior to COVID. Authorities were actively patrolling the streets checking ID and ensuring nobody jumped the fence. If an authoritarian government wants…

I’ve seen pictures of those barriers. I’ve wondered how China was able to source those materials so quickly. I know China is amazing a manufacturing anything at scale but I can only imagine having the wide deployment of something like chain linked fencing available instead of large barriers. Did they have a stock of them ready?

I don't know for certain, but I suspect most jurisdictions in China maintain large amounts of riot control supplies as part of their "public safety" equipment.

One thing that struck me in living and traveling in China was the number of emergency supply caches. There are signs pointing them out in parks, metro stations and many other public spaces. In my head I always imagined those store rooms and bunkers to contain things like potable water, blankets, sandbags and so on, but perhaps that's also where they store the barriers and truncheons?

Either way, if there's one thing the Chinese government historically does well, it's the logistics behind controlling the movement of over a billion people. That's why the current situation in Shanghai is such an embarrassment - the one thing that everyone trusts the government to be able to do well is failing. I expect they'll get on top of it sooner or later, same as they did in Wuhan 2020, and then the narrative will change, but for now people are feeling pretty upset.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#349

> This is the biggest, richest, most international city of China and people are starving, without medicine, and without freedom. Ouch. Seems like a really bad situation.

Yeah if you completely shut down private services there, then there's no way the government has the resources to help everyone. They'll end up killing and traumatizing far more people than they're saving from covid. Rather than forcing everyone to get a vaccine they do this--I mean if you're going to be a totalitarian system at least do it logically. Just goes to show you how shit the CCP logic is.

Re: An Account of the Shanghai Lockdown

#350
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not vaccinated because they did not want. i am wondering about your question.

China wouldn't be in this mess if they had followed New Zealand's approach of vaccinating all the old people with a high quality vaccine. Then you can just open up again because the mortality risk of Covid is the same as the annual flu (according to data out of the UK). In a country with complete control over the information ecosystem, how can it be that so many old Chinese people don't want to take the vaccine? Is a…

>In a country with complete control over the information ecosystem, how can it be that so many old people don't want to take the vaccine?

Because nobody wanted to be held responsible for any adverse reactions to the vaccine. The sordid state of medical liability culture and vaccine hesitancy in China would take too long to explain here so let's just say that the distrust runs pretty deep, and the government is understandably cautious with the vaccine program. One might even say too cautious as the vaccine came with a long list of contraindications that cover every category of geriatric illness, and it was not even approved for the 60+ age group for quite some time.

The propagandists in China did all they could to portray the vaccine as safe and effective but stopped short of actually enacting a vaccine mandate. The medics were more concerned with self-preservation, going as far as telling young couples to avoid pregnancy for 6-12 months after getting the vaccine just in case it might cripple the foetus. All of the these mixed messages only reinforced the existing suspicions that the vaccine was rushed and unsafe.

Of course none of these actually matters. Why waste political capital when the problem is effectively socialised among 1.4 billion people? Just keep covid out of China and everyone will live happily thereafter, right?

Australia and NZ, in contrast, deliberately made it very difficult to get any kind of exemption for the vaccine. Not to mention that both countries had endemic Delta variant by the time vaccination began in its earnest. Fear should not be underestimated as a motivator - ethnic Indians topped vaccination rates in multiple western countries because everybody had lost a relative to covid in India.

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