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MIT graduate students vote to unionize

thetech.com

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Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#21

For the uninformed, what is the purpose of a student union?

>, what is the purpose of a student union?

I'm guessing the "student" part of "graduate student" is the confusion.

Fyi... grad students are also employees of the university. So a labor union applies to the "workers" aspect of graduate students. Grad students get paid a stipend (salary) for research, teaching, etc. It's a "workers union" and not a "student union".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graduate_student_employee_unio...

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#22
When I was a graduate student, I always thought I had a good deal, where I learn graduate degree for free, AND got a living stipend for me and my wife. The relationship between me and the university was two folded: I am a customer as a student and an employee at the same time. And I think student was my main role. And my advisor was mostly my teacher, instead of my work boss. I don't think you can turn this relationship into purely an employer-employee relationship.

You can separate the two relationships by making the university pay the whole salary, and then you pay the tuition from your bank account. You can ask for higher wage, but the university can ask for higher tuition. I think the low tuition has already having this factored in, otherwise how can you get a 2-year / 4-year work training program with such low price?

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#23
I'm very curious to see what the long term effects of unionizing will be in Academia. I'm hopeful and optimistic it will improve things in the long run. Yes there will be some unintended consequences but academic life is already very rough if you're not tenured.

Academia likes to cast itself as a true meritocracy. If you work hard and publish good papers you'll do well. In practice it's more of a gerontocracy where senior members can single handedly destroy a young investigators career. (It happened to me and I saw it happen to several people). There is little to no recourse against this.

Arguments against unionization from already tenured faculty usually sound like: "If you want to be the best in your field you have to work harder than everyone else. Forming a union won't change that fact and may even discourage students from working so hard. This might interfere with their career goals."

However, the power structures in academia are heavily skewed and toxic. Individually graduate students have little recourse when they are wronged. Life in academia is hard. You have to work long days, the chance of success is very low. At every stage the probability of getting that next job is very low.

A lot of the field agrees that something needs to change, but no one can agree exactly what needs to change or how to get there. The people with the power are the tenured professors who "won the lottery" and are out of touch with the problems they are causing. They aren't going to be the mechanism of change even though they hold all the power.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#24

Unions can be good. They can be operated poorly and inefficiently too. Good luck to them. Consumer unions seem like a neat idea too.

Graduate students are paid half time but expected to work full time and have their entire career at the mercy of individual professors. If protections will not be given freely then collective bargaining can force the issue.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#25
post #5

Coming from Sweden I'm surprised they aren't already. Do you also not have student unions to represent you until you reach undergrad?

Yeah that's weird, I wish this included undergraduate students as well. But maybe there is a reason behind it that I don't understand.

Including undergraduates, who are primarily paying consumers, would have muddied the waters. Graduate students are clearly workers under any definition.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#26
post #19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elect leadership. Who then negotiates with the faculty.

What leverage do they have? Worker's unions work because they can threaten to withhold labor. Are those students seriously going to not attend MIT? An institution as prestigious as MIT probably has no trouble finding replacements.

"MIT fires entire graduate student body in union-busting move" is probably not a great look for them.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#27

In the UK, most students are members of their universitys' branch of the National Union of Students.[1] The unions have a big presence on campus and a bar with heavily discounted drinks and organise a lot of the social clubs and events that happen outside of the study. They also negotiate with the university and faculty, fighting for students, and you can get individual advise and help too. Enrolling to the student u…

No post body was provided.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#28
post #19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elect leadership. Who then negotiates with the faculty.

What leverage do they have? Worker's unions work because they can threaten to withhold labor. Are those students seriously going to not attend MIT? An institution as prestigious as MIT probably has no trouble finding replacements.

When you run a research group: one student leaving is no big deal, every student leaving is a catastrophe. Who's going to fund you when you have no one to do the work? It takes years to get grad students up to speed. All wind is drained from the sails and you need to waste your precious time rebuilding. All because you didn't want to treat your workers like humans.

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#29
post #5

Coming from Sweden I'm surprised they aren't already. Do you also not have student unions to represent you until you reach undergrad?

Yeah that's weird, I wish this included undergraduate students as well. But maybe there is a reason behind it that I don't understand.

Graduate students are employees of the university. There are usually other unions at universities for employees, and undergraduate students working in universities can sometimes be in those unions as well, but graduate students as employees face some unique circumstances due to their employment and as a result often form their own union.

Traditionally for better or for worse, undergraduate representation comes by way of a student council, with a single person elected to a chair on the larger university advisory council (the structure can be different depending on the university, I'm generalizing).

Re: MIT graduate students vote to unionize

#30
post #19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elect leadership. Who then negotiates with the faculty.

What leverage do they have? Worker's unions work because they can threaten to withhold labor. Are those students seriously going to not attend MIT? An institution as prestigious as MIT probably has no trouble finding replacements.

Withhold work via a strike? See how many labs run and MIT grants are retained without a graduate student labor force.
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