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Ask HN: Hybrid/Remote software team rituals

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Re: Ask HN: Hybrid/Remote software team rituals

#141

Post by tomtheelder »

5150rc wrote: post #139
gilbetron wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

counter rant: I get great joy at socialization by working with people. It is something I've come to discover about myself, and I am not alone. And "work" doesn't have to include a job, but "working" with people on a sports team, or doing renovation at home or any other thing where we are working together to do something. Many other social things people like to do just doesn't do it much for me, although I've gotten b…

"Working is not anti-human, it is a fundamental component of humanity." Working is anti-human when that human has no choice but to work or else they become homeless and die in the street. For many, including myself, a job is a means to an end, not an extension of sociality. Apart of being human is understanding that other humans have a different perception of socialization and not being offended when they don't want…

I think it's hard to classify that as anti-human when that has been the same for the entirety of our existence as a species.

And to be honest on HN there's a lot more people getting offended by the idea that someone might enjoy small talk than vice versa.

Re: Ask HN: Hybrid/Remote software team rituals

#142

Post by ALittleLight »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #135
ALittleLight wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small talk enjoyers have the advantage that they can nonconsensually initiate small talk and it's rude for small talk dislikers to even express their dislike. I don't see how unilaterally engaging people in an activity that only you like is "friendly".

How about because an individual puts themself out there to try and build a relationship around shared values, activities, joys? If it's not reciprocated they try something else, or eventually move on. I think you're using "small talk" pejoratively, but all big and deep things start off small. Example: I met my wife of 20+ years eating lunch at a picnic table over casual conversation, so I'm all-in on small talk.

I met my wife when we were both posting on a forum about how we wanted to get married and have kids. We didn't start off with small talk and are now married and have kids, so I think that disproves your notion of "all big and deep things start off small." Perhaps always starting small is one approach, but it's not a universal one.

As another example, I'd point to this conversation. You and I don't need to engage in small talk here to share our thoughts on some subject. I directly state my opinion and you state yours and we can discuss. At no point do I need to ask how your day was, about the weather, or what you did over the weekend. I am interested in discussions (that's why I participate in them online) but I don't care about any of that banal stuff. I hope your weekend was great, but I don't need to know about it.

Re: Ask HN: Hybrid/Remote software team rituals

#143

Post by tomtheelder »

slotrans wrote: post #134
matsemann wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who talked about "force" here? And why assume introverts don't like these things? If anything, I prefer having an arena to be social, rather than having to take the initiative myself.

Rituals are mandatory by definition, so everything we're talking about is forced

I would have assumed the total opposite. A ritual to me is something that is generally observed but not enforced.

Re: Ask HN: Hybrid/Remote software team rituals

#144

Post by AlwaysRock »

innocentoldguy wrote: post #121
AlwaysRock wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect a lot of folks have some trauma from past bosses that inform how they view relatively tame things. When I start a new job I set myself as away on slack and never change it to active because I had a boss who would message me if I was away for more than 5 minutes during COVID. The green/gray circle is pretty big brothery and feels crazy to me but everyone accepts it. I think I'm hyper sensitive to this becaus…

This sounds exactly like a manager I had before. We called him "Fart" behind his back. He was definitely one of the top-three worst managers of my 30+ year career. I think anyone who aspires to me a manager should ask themselves, "Where does my leadership 'power' come from?" The answer is NOT: 1. Title/position. 2. Company org chart. 3. Experience. 4. Education. The "power" of leadership comes from the people you man…

Yup. This guy used to fly off the handle and lose his temper all the time. Probably had to apologize 1 a week to an employee for saying something nasty just because he couldnt control his emotions.

Re: Ask HN: Hybrid/Remote software team rituals

#146

Post by edmundsauto »

jonjon10002 wrote: post #128

I'm a manager. (Sorry.) I do a weekly Friday "Ask me anything" on Zoom that's basically a free-form training session where people reporting to me (or other teams are fine, too) ask about how to do something or how we should be doing something, and we walk through it in video. One reason I started this is we had a mix of junior people, people who came in from acquisitions, and people who had changed tools and weren't…

How often would someone watch them later?

Re: Ask HN: Hybrid/Remote software team rituals

#147

Post by ineptech »

ALittleLight wrote: post #142
skeeter2020 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about because an individual puts themself out there to try and build a relationship around shared values, activities, joys? If it's not reciprocated they try something else, or eventually move on. I think you're using "small talk" pejoratively, but all big and deep things start off small. Example: I met my wife of 20+ years eating lunch at a picnic table over casual conversation, so I'm all-in on small talk.

I met my wife when we were both posting on a forum about how we wanted to get married and have kids. We didn't start off with small talk and are now married and have kids, so I think that disproves your notion of "all big and deep things start off small." Perhaps always starting small is one approach, but it's not a universal one. As another example, I'd point to this conversation. You and I don't need to engage in s…

You're missing the point of small talk, which is largely nonverbal. Is it wise to assume an API that returns an empty message body is broken, or to look for useful information in the response code and the headers?

Re: Ask HN: Hybrid/Remote software team rituals

#150

Post by gilbetron »

5150rc wrote: post #139
gilbetron wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

counter rant: I get great joy at socialization by working with people. It is something I've come to discover about myself, and I am not alone. And "work" doesn't have to include a job, but "working" with people on a sports team, or doing renovation at home or any other thing where we are working together to do something. Many other social things people like to do just doesn't do it much for me, although I've gotten b…

"Working is not anti-human, it is a fundamental component of humanity." Working is anti-human when that human has no choice but to work or else they become homeless and die in the street. For many, including myself, a job is a means to an end, not an extension of sociality. Apart of being human is understanding that other humans have a different perception of socialization and not being offended when they don't want…

The entirety of our existence, and I mean all the way back when we were single-celled organisms, it has been work or die. It isn't until relatively recently that any other option generally represented itself.

I'm not saying that people should be forced into smalltalk, and I'm not saying that people that "just want to work" have something wrong with them, I'm just pushing back on the notion that it anti-human and aberrant to want to have a social component to work, when "work" is an important part of life.

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