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A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

military.com

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Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#101

Post by ncmncm »

oh_sigh wrote: post #56
clort wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading about an experiment where they gave somebody a belt which would vibrate at the north side and the subjects became very spatially aware would never get lost. Even when they were taken at night, blindfolded and driven around for like half an hour they could point to the way home without really thinking about it. ah seems to be a product now: https://point-iot.eu/success-story/navibelt/

This is a skill you can teach yourself through mindfulness alone. I've never been driven around blindfolded, but I can enter a building, go through a big maze of hallways, and be able to tell you which direction north is.

We probably have a magnetic sense that we lose conscious awareness of through not paying attention.

There are cultures whose language grammar depends on all directions being relative to cardinal points. Even three-year-olds never get it wrong.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#102

Post by ncmncm »

krisoft wrote: post #9
samstave wrote: post #2

Good article. I can't help but wonder why way-finding / path-finding vibrational orienteering vests aren't a thing yet. You could vibratory signal a path in complete darkness, indicate obstacles and threats or directions to supply caches etc.

> You could vibratory signal a path in complete darkness, indicate obstacles and threats or directions to supply caches etc. What sensors would this vest use to figure out where you are and where the obstacles and threats around you are?

It could get regular situation updates from base, and rely on GPS and compass to relate local position and orientation to interesting points. Just knowing at all times, without need to look at anything, the directions to mission objective and back to base would be useful.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#105

Post by kzrdude »

trelane wrote: post #93
throwawayboise wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

737MAX would not have crashed if it were being flown autonomously, as the entire MCAS system would have been unnecessary. It was there to meet regulations regarding control feel for human pilots.

Also because full automation means pilots, so no certifications for any aircraft types, let alone the same one. So there would be no need to force the plane to be a "737".

Why not? Full certification of automatic piloting of a new plane type might have run into the same kind of situation - that you want to "preserve the plane type" to get to market quicker with the product. This is conjecture since we're nowhere near this yet?

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#106

Post by tempestn »

throwawayboise wrote: post #84
tempestn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those checklists exist for a reason. Far, far more incidents and accidents are caused by ignoring them than by relying on them. These planes are sufficiently complex that pilots can't come close to holding all possible contingencies in their heads; the checklists are designed specifically to allow them to react appropriately in any foreseeable situation. I'm not saying it's impossible that if they'd ignored the check…

You are correct, but the captain is ultimately the final authority how to handle anything that happens in-flight. If he or she feels that the checklist will not help, or will take too long, the decision can be made to do something else. If they survive, the captain can expect a lot of questions if standard procedures were not followed, but as they say, any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.

That's true, and as the other reply mentions, one obvious scenario for that would be if there literally isn't enough time to execute the checklist. I just didn't like the implication that checklists are bad and if they'd just been ignored things would've been better. Like, maybe, but it depends on how the pilot reacts absent a checklist. Sometimes that will be correctly, but there are just so many incidents caused (in part) by pilots just doing one thing they remember while skipping over other checklist items that would have helped.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#107

Post by LorenPechtel »

andylynch wrote: post #38
dqpb wrote: post #15

Are vibrators really the best option? I would think small actuators that apply pressure, with a dull point perhaps, would be more energy efficient and could provide higher resolution.

Looks like the kit discussed here is geared towards emergency use, so vibration makes sense as clear & hard to miss. Power to the haptics is probably insignificant. For more regular uses different concerns would apply!

Airplanes have big jet engines. The available power isn't going to be of concern.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#108

Post by LorenPechtel »

ncmncm wrote: post #46
raisedbyninjas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read about a hobby project a while back that used vibrating motors to keep the wearer aware of magnetic north. It supposedly made quite a difference. Here's a project that could be the same thing. https://newatlas.com/north-paw-vibrating-ankle-compass-kit/2...

That was a good idea, but a very stupid execution. All you need is an ear bud that clicks as your head turns past each cardinal point. (The click can vary by which point it is.) You can implement this with 10 grams of microcontroller and a magnetic sensor. Add a couple of grams more for GPS, and you can have it click when your head points to where you parked your jeep or tent. To maintain battery life, you turn on th…

That's not going to save as much power as you think--civilian GPS has to download a message from the satellites that repeats on a 30 second interval before it can give a good answer.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#109

Post by LilDioBrando »

trelane wrote: post #94
oefnak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but fighter jets often fly closer to the ground and change direction more often (than airliners).

Fighter jets are also unstable, by design. Commercial aircraft are required to be stable, as they don't need to change direction quickly, but rather be as safe as possible. https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/aerodynamics/3-types...

So that's why I can't properly trim my fighter jet in DCS to fly in a straight line with no altitude change. I still think I'm bad at it tho.

Re: A naked skydive inspired a way to keep pilots oriented in flight

#110

Post by nvahalik »

skykooler wrote: post #60
pugworthy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've defined it via the general mismatch in a good way. Sea sickness is your eyes saying, "I'm not moving", but your inner ear saying, "Oh yes we are". VR sickness is your eyes saying, "We are moving" and your inner ear saying, "No we're not"

I wonder whether having something to blow air on you in particular directions as you move in VR might help with that, then?

That would be really, really nifty.
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