Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#771

Post by nemo44x » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 3:14 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #736

nemo44x wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you pay cash? I made a cash offer on mine but still took out a loan since interest rates are so low. Homes are priced based on what people who want to live in a place are willing to pay per month. The interest rate, property tax rate, and home price determine that. As rates go down prices go up.

>Why would you pay cash? I made a cash offer on mine but still took out a loan since interest rates are so low. That was a response to your statement that 'people have the money'. The larger point is that just because people are buying houses doesn't mean that things are healthy, case in point: 2007/2008 housing crash, which was preceded by a housing bubble and led to a lot of misery.

I don't think it was really a bubble if you look back on it. Yes, some people were exposed (flippers and people that borrowed WAY too much) but anyone that was just buying a property to live in was fine, mainly. If you look at prices from then VS now, they have more than doubled for example. So was it a bubble? Anyone who bought a house at the top then and is still in it is doing just fine.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#772

Post by dionidium » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #687

leetcrew wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in general, per capita crime is higher in cities though. some of that is misleading: truly random murders are rare pretty much everywhere. but you're a lot more likely to be the victim of crimes of opportunity (armed robbery, car/home break-ins, etc) when you live in a dense area.

Rural areas can have horrible crime, like rural New Mexico or the Mississippi delta. It is all very region specific. Alaska is one big example of a state where rural crime is greater than urban crime on a per capita basis.

In general, cities are more dangerous:

https://twitter.com/RyanRadia/status/1461904766238404611

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#773

Post by hello_moto » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

medvezhenok wrote: post #524

hello_moto wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Individual non-business landlords cannot derive more than 50% of their income from rental properties Properties are one of the top income generator for (pure) retirees. How would you ensure they can retire and still have income via properties? I guess you can add clausal to exclude {retirement_age} ownership? Hopefully nobody uses them as proxy. Tricky huh?

> Properties are one of the top income generator for (pure) retirees Yes, and that's part of the problem - holding property shouldn't be a viable retirement plan. If they want retirement income they could sell the houses and buy an annuity or invest in productive enterprises (or buy government bonds back in the day - which is no longer an option, unfortunately). Extracting surplus income from workers via property ren…

> Yes, and that's part of the problem - holding property shouldn't be a viable retirement plan

It's how many retirees in high living cost around the world fetch their income (when their retirement I don't see that as a problem for those who work hard and made good decisions throughout their life.

> If they want retirement income they could sell the houses and buy an annuity or invest in productive enterprises (or buy government bonds back in the day - which is no longer an option, unfortunately).

Riskier. Why should they?

Blaming them for holding one or two properties for retirement income is pretty much scapegoating the victim of the situation given for them: they made the best investment choice and they're being told that they're part of the problem.

I see many people blaming "shareholder's" greed too when it comes to investment.

The truth is that majority of people are just trying to secure their future and it's hard to blame them because their choices are guided by their surrounding (what's given to them).

I would look into the Government (specifically the cities, municipalities, and urban planners). They have the power to shape our environment.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#774

Post by davidw » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

im3w1l wrote: post #725

davidw wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "convenient" though. People desperately want to believe that there is some remote "other" that is causing the problems, not their otherwise kind, friendly neighbors. And yet, at every hearing I've attended about housing, ever public comment period for a project, it is my "neighbors" opposing the homes. The editorials in the local paper about how re-legalizing fourplexes would lead to (I'm paraphrasing) "thos…

If you want to sort out this problem then you will need to address the concerns about "those people". There are some very real concerns that people have. Violence. Drugs. Noise. School quality. People want a good environment in which to bring up their kids and these are all crucial. Fortunately they could be solved in other ways than expensive housing. Unfortunately people have a very justified fear that they wont be…

Mostly it's not justified, just racism.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#775

Post by Sohcahtoa82 » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #684

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anecdote: My parents bought a house 35 years ago in a suburb of the GTA. Purchase price was around 250K I think. It was a lot for the time, too! And now it's probably worth 1.8-2M. Amazing! Except 250k @ 6.5% over 35 years is just over 2.2M. Right...but if you're using that to compare it to renting, the renter still comes out behind. WAYYYY behind. The buyer (using your example) : Spends $250K on a house. After 35…

you're missing the part where the renter is continually investing the difference between their current rent and the mortgage they would be paying. but yeah, if you're prescient enough to know ahead of time that you're going to live in the same building for 35 years, you'd be foolish to rent.

Yeah but as you said in another comment, in some locales, the rent and a mortgage payment are equal. There would be no difference to invest.

And considering a mortgage payment is constant while rent continuously goes up, in a few years, rent would EXCEED the mortgage payment.

When I bought my house in the end of 2015, I paid $338K. Mortgage + property tax was $1800/month. Zillow estimated the rent value at $1700/month. It's now early 2022, 6 1/2 years later. Zillow estimates the house is worth $615K and has a rent value of $2500/month.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#776

Post by aspenmayer » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 4:27 PM UTC

exfascist wrote: post #743

pyuser583 wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t just a funding issue. In most countries what I described would be illegal. In America it’s protected. We have a jurisprudence that allows Neo-Nazis to March through Jewish neighborhoods. Our public sphere is extremely permissive. So permissive that avoiding the public sphere is necessary to avoid anti-social behavior.

Without that kind of protection usually some group gains power and becomes the only protected group. Neo-Nazis are an indication that even the most socially unacceptable groups still have a voice. They should be considered a canary and a good thing to see occasionally. I wouldn't want to live in a country where they were censored and if you feel so strongly about it I would suggest moving somewhere else (Germany cens…

Are you sure you’re an ex-fascist?

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#777

Post by Dracophoenix » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 4:31 PM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #398

My anger about housing prices led me to create Real Estate Rebellion: https://www.reddit.com/r/realestaterebellion/

Why do you think real estate shouldn't be an investment? Time, money, and effort to secure land, materials, labor in order to build real estate. This is the same economic principle for any other commodity.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#778

Post by pyuser583 » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 4:55 PM UTC

exfascist wrote: post #743

pyuser583 wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t just a funding issue. In most countries what I described would be illegal. In America it’s protected. We have a jurisprudence that allows Neo-Nazis to March through Jewish neighborhoods. Our public sphere is extremely permissive. So permissive that avoiding the public sphere is necessary to avoid anti-social behavior.

Without that kind of protection usually some group gains power and becomes the only protected group. Neo-Nazis are an indication that even the most socially unacceptable groups still have a voice. They should be considered a canary and a good thing to see occasionally. I wouldn't want to live in a country where they were censored and if you feel so strongly about it I would suggest moving somewhere else (Germany cens…

I’m a civil libertarian. Hideous though it may be, Nazis should be allowed to march through Jewish neighborhoods.

But that’s different from Nazis going around on a subway screaming racial insults at passengers.

For many passengers that would make the subway unusable.

Remember this thread is ultimately about “why public transit is better than people having cars.”

Antisocial behavior is a disadvantage of public transit, and in some cases makes it unusable.

I think keeping this conversation focused around public transit is a good idea.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#779

Post by hello_moto » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

ska wrote: post #583

hello_moto wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's mostly going to have to build that on top of areas that are currently full of single family detached. This is not going to make current denizens of those "nice neighbourhoods" happy, naturally. They're not happy with megatowers. They're ok with missing middle (townhouses). There is a whole stretch of roads being bought out and converted to missing middle that leads to downtown. (Oak, Cambie).

Small Townhouses aren’t really enough though , you need to go 4-5 stories at least in part. I’ve seen zoning fights about even duplexes, let alone anything bigger - not sure if Vancouver is more accepting of that than other places . Is it the case there that people are ok/happy with mid rise places along busy corridors only , but want to maintain SFD on all the side streets? That really doesn’t work either , it’s jus…

O ya, I agree with you that "small" townhouses aren't enough. Low rises helped though nobody wants to build "concrete" low risers (esp with the mandate from govt to set aside rental units, below market rental units, etc).

> I’ve seen zoning fights about even duplexes, let alone anything bigger - not sure if Vancouver is more accepting of that than other places .

Nobody has any issues with duplexes and townhouses.

It's a bunch of patch up jobs really.

I do agree that they should just bulldoze and start developing around Skytrain stations first. That way they have a starting point to sprawl a bit. It should be a give and take from both sides: govt and nimby. Govt needs to give nimby something to keep them happy (sad but what can you do) while telling them to F off when it comes to building towers around skytrain (first).

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#780

Post by cmrdporcupine » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 5:29 PM UTC

wnolens wrote: post #638

liketochill wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to thinking that banks should be smart and act in their own self interest of not lending money to people who can’t pay it back, there are government mandated stress tests for qualifying for mortgages at higher interest rates. While rates are historically low and a return to the rates of the 80’s would cause a lot of defaults, I think the market has tuned itself for maximum extraction of labour from those…

Yes, I think that's it. There's not many places to actually live in Canada, so demand is sky high anywhere within a few hours of the major city centres. Then long stretches of nothing. Yukon is cool, but it's not super cheap if you were hoping so. Rent is high compared to home prices though, so being a landlord is easier.

Nonsense.

There's hundreds of thousands of square kilometres of places to live in Canada, it's primarily a humid temperate climate (in Ontario and southwestern Quebec) no different than the midwest or other parts more like the US northeast and with huge sections that are prairie or poplar "parkland" like the Dakotas etc. You have to go really far north to find anything "uninhabitable."

Southern Ontario (where almost half of Canadians live) alone is 139,931 km² -- about the size of all of England (130,279 km²), or half of all of Germany -- and almost all highly arable land with copious fresh water and developed highway and rail networks. And it's further south than most northern US states, sitting at about the same latitude as southern Oregon.

There's lots of room to build. Stereotypes of Canada as a barren northern land are laughable products of American ignorance or Toronto-centric myopia.