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One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

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Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#361

Post by asveikau »

NoOn3 wrote: post #311
asveikau wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand... I was really against the Iraq war and nobody ever threatened me with 15 years of jail for it. The architects of that conflict left when term limits were up. (Putin did not.) Don't get me wrong, Iraq was pointless. Afghanistan seemed to have a justification at the start but was mismanaged early on. In terms of culture, wide swaths of the population were brainwashed in a similar way to how we talk…

I don't really think if you will do peaceful express your opinion against war in Russia maybe with single protest you will get a real term in prison only a monetary fine and even this is not always the case.

This isn't much of a refutation of the point.

Moreover, some specific individuals have been murdered for speaking about Putin. Anna Politkovskaja and Aleksandr Litvinenko were both murdered for questioning the official narratives on Chechnya.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#362

Post by NoOn3 »

ciceryadam wrote: post #350
NoOn3 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really think if you will do peaceful express your opinion against war in Russia maybe with single protest you will get a real term in prison only a monetary fine and even this is not always the case.

Russian police arrest demonstrator protesting with blank sign - https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/russia-protest-war-bla...

I don't know all cases, but I know people with blank posters was detained and just had a preventive conversation with them and then they were released. And I think in most cases if you don't resist and don't fight with the police, and don't do something very dangerous, then no very serious punishments will be applied to you. Perhaps there are exceptional cases, but they need to be considered especially, perhaps there are special circumstances, . The Western press uses the same techniques as the Russian press often chooses only cases that are beneficial to them and exaggerates their number, so you need to carefully examine different cases and study sources from different sides if possible. I'm not saying that everything in Russia is perfectly democratic and free, I just want to show that everything is not as gloomy as the Western media want to show.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#363

Post by NoOn3 »

asveikau wrote: post #361
NoOn3 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really think if you will do peaceful express your opinion against war in Russia maybe with single protest you will get a real term in prison only a monetary fine and even this is not always the case.

This isn't much of a refutation of the point. Moreover, some specific individuals have been murdered for speaking about Putin. Anna Politkovskaja and Aleksandr Litvinenko were both murdered for questioning the official narratives on Chechnya.

In Chechnya In these times was real chaos and war. There were there a lot of actors who didn't obey anyone, so, of course, there were a lot of crimes. It took a lot of effort to establish the control of the authorities over what was happening. It's hard to clearly say that Anna Politkovskaha was on Putin's orders. Alexandr Litvinenko was different case. He was an defector and former officer not a peaceful human rights activist maybe I can believe it. But not all his statements and his writings has clearly proofs. For example Julian Assange faces the death penalty in the US. And some even claims that was attempts on him... Many developed countries of the world have a history of some strange crime cases and human rights violations. It seems in real world all is so complicated you even can't easy say that these crimes were not deliberately constructed by hostile agents. Only in case than you have very very accurate evidence sometimes only if you have personally seen them... I would like to live in a truly free and democratic country, but I doubt that such a country can exist in conditions when there are necessarily hostile and unfriendly among many other countries...

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#364

Post by NoOn3 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #293
NoOn3 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very little free press in US...Inconvenient people for the authorities have almost no chance of getting on TV.

Look at CNN while Trump was president, or Fox while Biden is. Inconvenient people for the authorities are on US TV daily .

I understand maybe I exaggerated. It seems that in the US tv is clearly more free than in Russia tv. But it has many people and opinions that you don't see on tv. representatives of other parties (The Green party, even maybe communist party USA (yes, there are such :)) with the exception of Democrats and Republicans. You rarely see Richard Stallman on TV, Trump is banned in many sources, of course there were reasons for this, I take into account his eccentricity, but I am still for freedom of information...

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#365

Post by NoOn3 »

yywwbbn wrote: post #343
NoOn3 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that Russian ban of foreign media is not good, but some west countries banned Russian media too and created special difficulties for them early...

Generally I don’t support limiting free speech or even banning Russia TV channels in this case. But let’s not pretend that quasi independent government propaganda department are equivalent to western media companies.

As a Russian that make me sad that our media uses such a very hacky work strategy, sometimes add fakes some times try to color clearly events in the beneficial side. But I think that it's clearly in Russian media and Russian political view point has some clear truths that Western media not always want to show and our media could have represented their point of view much better. But I saw fakes in western media too, and quite often, although perhaps in smaller quantities... I even know one News TV presenter on Russian central channel it's strange, but it seems to me that he never say fakes, does not try to embellish events in one direction or another, but it only airs on Saturday evenings news and then not every time.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#366

Post by vmception »

umarniz wrote: post #25

I love the execution of this! Not comparing but I did a similar project 8 years ago at the peak of Israel / Palestine conflict to compare tweets from Palestine vs tweets from Israel. Incredible difference when you see them side by side. It would be great if someone would execute such an idea for more areas of conflict to bring awareness.

Whenever there is a flare up over there, it dominates US news sources, and I’ve been using proxies and VPNs since the 2000s to get another set of articles from other mostly Western countries

Its been different

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#367

Post by AlbinoDaffy »

pests wrote: post #351
AlbinoDaffy wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While no the answer you are expecting, but the answer nonetheless. If you have android phone (or android emulator wink wink, nudge nudge), you can install modded TikTok client[1], which has a bunch of settings. The one you are looking for is "- Remove most of regional restrictions". Change your region to russland, and try scrolling it for yourself. If you are an advanced enough programmer, you can check out the chang…

You must have something wrong in your last paragraph. Russia can't upload new things at all. There is nothing about the show from Russians to show. Russia's are also not being shown new Ukraine videos. This is as designed as mentioned and as you know due to technical-implemnted regional bubbles. What were you saying in your last two sentences?

Second paragraph is a response to @latchkey's question

  > How do we know their bots didn't have bugs in them that pushed the results in favor of the tone of the article?
And I'm replying, that the point of the report is to tell about information bubble. The same one you are describing.

  > how they watch videos and how they scroll through them, and as such changing recommendation algorithm
Bots' viewing rules can only change the *amount of war related videos* uploaded before March 4th, not the *reported lack of fresh videos* from the other side for the russian bot. And as such there should be no issues about the lack of source code.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#368

Post by d0mine »

kasey_junk wrote: post #354
d0mine wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an example of the media that still exist today? Iraq war is where "embed" journalism became the only acceptable source where journalists were killed by US.

That link about Fox News is from two weeks ago. Fox News is the most widely watched news network in the US. Tucker Carlson has the highest rated show on that network and has taken an anti-Ukraine stance.

I don't believe you are seriously considering Fox News to be independent (I wouldn't even consider it as a source of information).

The insanity that they are spewing is just a tool to create the illusion of a debate.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#369

Post by Tozen »

verisimi wrote: post #217
ajross wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An important distinction is that if I want to find foreign spin in the west, I can do so trivially and legally and share it with anyone I want. And the worst punishment I will see is a downvote. The core claim in the liked article isn't about content moderation, it's about censorship. And it's really upsetting to see the extent to which HN commenters want to conflate them.

Content moderation is de facto censorship. If someone is sharing a honestly held opinion, not threatening anyone - that should be allowed. You seem to be unaware of the level of censorship that goes on here, youtube, twitter, etc, etc. It is called breaking community guidelines, de-platforming, shadow banning, hate-speech, etc. Do you remember when Alex Jones was removed from everywhere in a couple of days? Regardles…

Very good points. Including the shadow banning that takes place here and everywhere. Different opinions and views are increasingly censored by those that are empowered. "Power corrupts". Unless a fair system is in place of checks and balances, there will be those that will abuse it whenever they can get away with it.

Re: One App – Two Worlds: This Is TikTok in Russia and Ukraine

#370

Post by asveikau »

NoOn3 wrote: post #363
asveikau wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't much of a refutation of the point. Moreover, some specific individuals have been murdered for speaking about Putin. Anna Politkovskaja and Aleksandr Litvinenko were both murdered for questioning the official narratives on Chechnya.

In Chechnya In these times was real chaos and war. There were there a lot of actors who didn't obey anyone, so, of course, there were a lot of crimes. It took a lot of effort to establish the control of the authorities over what was happening. It's hard to clearly say that Anna Politkovskaha was on Putin's orders. Alexandr Litvinenko was different case. He was an defector and former officer not a peaceful human right…

> For example Julian Assange faces the death penalty in the US

I really doubt this would happen.

He would probably face a lesser punishment, and you could argue about it being right or wrong, but this doesn't cancel out Russia's terrible track record.

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