Live data from Hacker News

Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

news.ycombinator.com

351–360 of 455 posts

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#351
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirmed the others that pointed out ex-Amazonians aren't pleasure to work with/for. Will avoid 10/10. I believe they were molded to survive the Amazon culture, unfortunately.

I found Amazon's culture - in particular the relentless obsession with solving actual customer needs - to be a perfect fit for my own engineering training from day one. I was not "molded" to fit it. As I see it, as an engineer I have expertise my customer can't truly know or measure. They really have to trust me. I earn that trust by taking on their problem as if it were my own. That's how I've worked my entire caree…

It is interesting to me that the tens of thousands of people that work at Amazon with their obsession of solving customer needs are not worried about solving the problem of customers not being able to trust where the goods are being sourced from.

Leaving aside the efficiencies of commingling inventory, even the simple filter option to only show sold and shipped by Amazon.com search results was deemed not to be a customer need. In fact, it was removed. Quite a puzzling “culture” of solving customer’s needs.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? This isn't Twitter, piling on a company doesn't add much to the discussion, it just lets people focus their outrage better

Society runs on example making, sadly. For all the good or ill that entails. Someone deserves to be named and shamed, with the caveat of, there must be an agreement to actually accept the results of further digging. If the recruiter said yes to a remote position that wasn't, the fault is rightly on the recruiter. If the recruiter was told remote was fine only for eventual reneg when ink was being put to paper... That…

As much as it pains me to say it... In my experiences if the recruiter email has an Indian name, it's going to be an uttar shitshow.

They will lie to you, blatantly.

They'll use non-standard English that will have tons of ambiguities and brokenness. I believe this is a benefit to them, to provide ambiguity.

The remote/hybrid/in-person status is whatever you ask, and will be updated to the real answer when talking to the client.

The job will flip/flop from to w2 and c2c by whatever you seem to express.

Pay is whatever they think you will like.

There's "benefits" until it flips to contract with no benefits.

Now, that's not to say that a standard American recruiter is somehow good. They're also pretty sketch as well. But so far, in 2y of looking for a new job, 100% of the Indian recruiters have not "did the needful" for me.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#353
> I'm not sure what the compensation model for recruiters is, but it seems to encourage bringing in as many candidates as possible over treating them with honesty and respect.

Recruiter here. You nailed it!

Recruiters are influencers: nothing more, nothing less. I'm writing a video essay to help me grieve the human-centric inane events you are describing that I lived daily for years.

Compensation model differs but if people are interested I can let you know.

Sometimes it’s the recruiter that originates the lie, sometimes it’s the company/process that dictates the lie. Regardless, your interview process is a datapoint that I have collected to influence hiring managers to allow more remote roles if they really liked you. Sometimes that data has been used to boot other agencies from working for them so I can have more control and make myself and my team look better. Who tf knows really? There is but only asymmetric information in this deal.

It's disingenuous from the start sometimes. I've hired loads of devs that weren't looking for a job (passive candidates) even pre 2020. A lot of those wanted remote or even partial WFH and I still got them to commute from West Seattle to Redmond. Sometimes it works out where the recruiter can establish rapport with a candidate enough to coax them into a hybrid situation (i've done it dozens of times) for $5-15k more a year (puke emojis). For me, that eventually turns into self loathing, disdain.

How do you make it to hiring committee, when you wanted remote as that was established from the start (on your side)? The recruiter (mistake by moving too fast, lies, who tf knows why) may or may not have known you wanted remote and at the worst expected you to be a fence sitter and pushed you through as 'it all comes out in the wash' (on their side). Maybe they take candidates through the process to stack rank them and see who they can make exceptions for and yeet the rest. Who knows: everyone is different as much as the company they are interviewing for.

Like, I have read the posts about tech hiring being broken, and let me tell you what. It's more than just a mental athletic gauntlet of tree traversal and finding big O. Together - candidates and recruiters alike - we are helplessly nibbling at yet just a mouthful of the present soul crushing sausage-like shitberg.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#354

Amazon is doing this. I went through the process and the recruiter tried to manipulate me into "assigning a local office" otherwise it has to go through "an approval process". I told him put it through the approval then or I walk. He also tried car-salesman tactics of trying to get me to accept a lower total comp package. I stood firmly at the top of my range and after days of trying to convince me otherwise, they fi…

What led you to go from a cushy job to a sweatshop, if I may ask?

Sure thing. Going in I knew I would hate working at a FAANG, so there were a few factors really: 1) my old job loves what I do and I can easily return at any time, 2) I literally doubled my salary, 3) polish up my experience, and 4) it would bullet-proof my resume.

On that last point: I haven't had issues getting in the door anywhere for the last decade, but I think if the industry were to sour, it would help my resume stand out from other candidates.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#355

I work for a startup that's full-remote (been that way since before COVID) and we are hiring. If you'd like to work in golang, come apply! who is hiring link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30878768

Confirmed! I've been happily working at Fevo for years, more than a thousand miles from headquarters.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not coming in, ever. In my experience working remote for the past decade "remote" usually involves coming to the office or having an offsite once a quarter. I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

I've been doing remote longer than a decade and never ever had to come in to the office when designated as such. Might be reasonable for you, but that's up to the individual and at the very least needs to be disclosed in the interview stage if it's mandated. Some people work remote because they have debilitating anxiety, phobias, or mental health issues. Others are single parents that don't have the ability to offloa…

Of course the terms of the role and how much travel is required should be disclosed up front.

That said, for a highly paid role at a company like Amazon one should expect that they'll have to occasionally travel. Demanding that you never visit the office is unreasonable. The job is not simply sitting in your room shipping code—it also involves in person conversation from time to time.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#357
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirmed the others that pointed out ex-Amazonians aren't pleasure to work with/for. Will avoid 10/10. I believe they were molded to survive the Amazon culture, unfortunately.

I found Amazon's culture - in particular the relentless obsession with solving actual customer needs - to be a perfect fit for my own engineering training from day one. I was not "molded" to fit it. As I see it, as an engineer I have expertise my customer can't truly know or measure. They really have to trust me. I earn that trust by taking on their problem as if it were my own. That's how I've worked my entire caree…

> I found Amazon's culture - in particular the relentless obsession with solving actual customer needs - to be a perfect fit for my own engineering training from day one.

So... Where's the "Report counterfeit" button again?

Oh yeah. That's right. There isn't one. Intentionally.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#358

When I joined my current company, I made sure to have it specified in my offer that I had the option to be fully remote in perpetuity. I know it doesn't actually make a difference — they can fire me for any reason, and I'm not going to take them to court over it — but it makes me feel like at least we have agreed on terms.

And if they aren't willing to even write it into the initial offer (despite how toothless that promise is in the long term in the US legal system), you know they aren't really serious about remote.

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#359
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

G is losing candidates given how long the team matching process takes place.

I know multiple people (including myself) who have passed up opportunities at Google because of how long it takes for them to make a hiring decision. It's incredible how much value they must be leaving on the table. At some point, Google won't be the kind of place that people wait around for. Then they're really screwed.

No, they're kinda screwed right now.

Google used to hire A+ players -- the cream of the cream of the crop. The workforce at early Google was spectacular. Everyone wanted to work there -- tenured faculty were leaving their jobs.

Right now, Google hires good people, but the very best people I know all work elsewhere (and many are former Googlers).

Nonsense like this won't discourage B or C players, who fight tooth-and-nail to get there, but it does discourage the people were Google is fighting for individuals with other employers.

I haven't heard any elite university faculty leave for Google in close to a decade, for example. It used to be common. Google would poach from Stanford and MIT.

I've seen companies go this way, and this kind of slide only tends to accelerate. Folks like Sebastian Thrun bring in the cream of Stanford, and the cream of Stanford brings in everyone else. Once you lose those top two tiers....

Re: Tell HN: Recruiters are lying about remote positions

#360

To everyone who is reading this, I'm hiring at On Deck (beondeck.com) We are are a 100% Remote company and will stay remote forever. Contact me if you'd like to join: sebastian.volkl@beondeck.com

What roles are you hiring for?

https://beondeck.com/careers incl. senior engineering roles
Post reply on HN